Is It Worth Investing in Customer Education? A Discussion with Panos Siozos, LearnWorlds CEO

Welcome to the Marketing Growth Podcast. I’m your host, Shane Barker. In this episode, Panos Siozos, the CEO and co-founder of LearnWorlds, is back with us for another intriguing conversation. For those joining us for the first time, here’s a quick recap: our previous episodes covered LearnWorlds’ journey to success and how the platform helped marketers create online courses. We also explored what makes a great online course and how you can use LearnWorlds to create yours. Today, however, we’re going to discuss why your brand must educate consumers and the best ways to do it. Let’s get started.

You’ve talked about education—about education being the best marketing. That’s exactly what I did when I started my blog. I thought, “Hey, we’re going to write about the experiences we have on my blog, things we’ve done in marketing, and what we’ve done with other people.” We started doing reviews; they’re doing all kinds of things. The idea was to simply hand out knowledge. People said, “Hey, listen, if you don’t have huge budgets and can’t figure this out, let me show you what I’ve done with my clients. Let me show you that I’ve had success.” That’s the reason for the LearnWorlds review we did on the website—because we were excited. We wanted the world to know what you guys are doing.

So, why is this important? Why is it so vital to educate your customers? What do you think are the main benefits of doing that?

Yeah, I think that’s what’s interesting. My company creates content—mainly on the writing side—and what people often miss on their blogs is that readers want education. They want to learn. For example, I remember Marcus Sheridan talking about his pool company. Back then, he wasn’t a marketer, just someone who started a pool company with a friend. He realized that people calling in were looking for education—like, “What’s the difference between this pool and that one? Why is yours $10,000 while theirs is $5,000?” So he started writing articles that answered those questions. Google loves that kind of content—“How do I do this?” “What are the FAQs?”—real, educational material. By doing that, he wasn’t just educating consumers; he was also being honest and transparent. It’s like, “Hey, now that I’ve explained everything, we also happen to sell pools.”

That’s basically what I did on my site. I’d explain SEO—if you read my article and learn enough to do it yourself, great. In fact, if you read all my posts and took a LearnWorlds course on SEO, you’d be pretty dangerous. You might not know everything I’ve picked up in 25 or 30 years, but you’d be a lot sharper. That’s what I love about today’s knowledge economy—like I was telling my son, when we started doing this, there weren’t any e-courses. You had to go to college if you wanted formal training. Now there are platforms everywhere. For example, I just had a call with a video consultant who’s helping me set up my office studio—lighting, cameras, everything—for just $150. Back in the day, you had to figure it all out on your own; there was no YouTube, no LearnWorlds, no online course to show you how.

I sound like my dad when he’d say, “I had to walk to school in the snow with no shoes,” and my son just goes, “Okay, Dad, can I finish my YouTube video?” But it’s true. He’s way ahead of where I was at his age, because so much is freely available. That’s incredibly valuable for businesses, too—offering knowledge for free, then showing people, “Hey, here’s the service we provide if you want it.” That’s been huge for us, because we drive most of our leads inbound by educating people. We give it as a gift—if you just want to learn from our blog, go for it. If you want to hire us afterward, great. If not, that’s okay too. That was the goal anyway. I love that approach.

Well, that’s what’s crazy—here’s my final point: I paid $150 for a guy to help me set up my video gear. He’s probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on research, and for just $150, I tapped into that. I showed him my setup, and now he’s telling me exactly what I need to do. I’m not spending hundreds of hours trying to figure it out on my own. Sure, I could watch YouTube videos and pick up some knowledge, but I’d rather get direct input from someone who’s a mentor. That could be a course—where you jump in for an hour or two—or hiring someone to walk you through it. Either way, you’re getting the best of what they’ve learned over 10 years, packed into a short session. You’re skipping all the financial burdens, the trial-and-error, and the ups and downs they experienced.

If someone asked me what I’d tell “Younger Shane” (Shane 1.0), I’d say, “Use the knowledge that’s out there,” because it didn’t exist in this form 15 or 20 years ago. That kind of mentorship is priceless. People pass on everything they’ve learned, and it’s critical—especially during COVID, when you might need to prepare for a different job or improve your current skill set.

From a marketing perspective, though, if we’re talking about creating educational content—how does that work? Do you have any tips for marketers? Our audience is full of marketers who want to know how to create effective, educational content.

That’s especially true these days, because everything’s cheaper and the software is better. Let me reiterate to everyone: since I’m an educator, I can tell you your first effort probably won’t be amazing—and that’s okay. It’s foundational. You’ll learn why it wasn’t great and what you can do to make it more interactive. Maybe download a PDF or do something else. The key is to just get started. You have to begin somewhere.

So in your opinion—because you’ve been at this a while—what brands do you think are doing a great job of educating their customers? Who’s excelling at creating content that truly educates consumers and converts them into paying customers?

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that. It’s funny—when you mentioned certificates, HubSpot was the first company that came to mind. They really popularized the idea, and lots of people followed suit. Of course, Google also has certificates for AdWords and similar areas, all part of education. And Ahrefs has been a sponsor of this podcast multiple times. I love their tool, and I think their video content is phenomenal—showing exactly how to use their software and what can be done with it. Actually, I might link to some articles we did on Ahrefs in the show notes. They’re a great example of a company nailing its content strategy.

I’m sure our listeners understand by now why they should educate their customers and how to go about it. However, I want to pause our conversation to mention that you can hire my team for online PR, influencer marketing, content marketing, and more. We can also create and manage digital marketing campaigns to help boost your online revenue. For more details, check out my website: shanebarker.com. Now, back to Panos.

Alright, man, we’re really on a roll here. Whenever we get into e-learning and talking about all these ways to educate people, I get super excited—almost as excited as you do, and you’ve been at this for 20 years! So, as we come to the end of the podcast, I always have some fun questions lined up. I don’t want to imply we weren’t having fun before—we definitely were—but this is my official “fun section.”

First question: if you could travel anywhere in the world for free—and let’s pretend it’s COVID-free, too, so you don’t need a mask—where would you go?

You know, that’s funny, because I really think 2020 has been about going back to the basics. We’re starting to appreciate things a lot more, realizing how easily they can be taken away. I don’t think we ever thought that would happen. I mean, 2020 has felt like a movie—like, “This is crazy, what’s going on here?” And then you realize it’s the simple things, like, “Hey, I want to take a two-hour flight and see my mom,” which might not have even been on my list in 2019. But it’s so simple and natural: I just want to see my mom again. It’s basic, but awesome. I’m lucky: my mom lives a mile and a half away, and we stay six feet apart because she’s retired and was quarantining before it was even “cool.” So we meet for coffee once a week on Fridays—six feet away, seven feet away—by the river in Sacramento, and I love it.

I think it’s great that we have this new appreciation for family and how quickly it can be taken away, for reasons beyond our control. I love your answer, because I’d be missing my mom if she were two hours away. Zoom can only do so much, right?

I totally agree. Alright, so what if we could give you a superpower? I’m talking X-Men style—whatever you want. What would you pick?

I feel like there might be a course on that. It’s potentially learnable. Flying would be harder—you shouldn’t just jump off stuff and test that out. But wanting to remember things better? I like that. It’s going back to basics—just being able to recall more.

We call it “a little more bandwidth.” That’s what I tell my wife: “Listen, I’ve got so much going on that I forget the little things.” She’ll say, “Did you get the milk?” and I’ll say, “I forgot the milk.” Then she’ll ask, “How’d you forget the milk?” I’m like, “My brain is only so big,” and I swear it’s gotten smaller over the years. The list of 20 things I used to remember is down to maybe 12—and if I don’t write them down, I forget. If it’s not on my calendar, it doesn’t exist. She’ll say, “I told you a week ago we had to do this on Friday at five,” and I’m like, “Nope, I don’t recall any of that.” There’s only so much space in my head. And unfortunately, it’s deteriorating by the day.

Anyway, one more thing—probably my last question, well, second to last. I usually talk about books. Do you read a lot? Is there anything you’d recommend? I’m always looking for good books, and in 2021, I’m definitely trying to stay educated. If I’m not taking a course or doing something online, is there a book that’s helped shape your career or your personality?

That’s a flashback for me. I haven’t read that book in so many years—I think I need to again, or maybe get it on Audible. That’s awesome. So last question, Panos. This has been a phenomenal interview; I love your energy. I love what you guys are doing. If anybody wants to get in touch with you, how can they do that?

That’s awesome. Well, hey man, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. And if you guys listening to this podcast like what you hear, make sure you subscribe. If you really like it, write a review. If you don’t like it, don’t write a review. We don’t want that. (I’m kidding!) If you have a bad review, just email me, and we’ll talk it over so I can improve. Panos, it’s been a pleasure, my friend. Thanks for taking the time today, and we’ll let you know when this launches.

Okay. Bye.

Alright, folks, thanks so much for listening to this podcast episode. I hope you learned a lot from our discussion and that you’re now equipped to create your own successful online courses. Next week, I’ll have another interesting guest, so stay tuned to the Marketing Growth Podcast.