Exploring Attorney SEO with Rankings.io’s Founder, Chris Dreyer

Welcome to the Marketing Growth Podcast. I’m your host, Shane Barker. On this episode, Chris Dreyer, the CEO and co-founder of rankings.io, is back with us for a detailed conversation about Attorney SEO.

Before we jump into the conversation, I’d like to take a minute to talk to my listeners. If you need help with digital marketing tactics like SEO, influencer marketing, online PR, and content marketing, please get in touch with my team. We offer both fully managed services and consultations. For more details, check out our website, shanebarker.com—that’s S, H, A, N, E, B, A, R, K, E, R.com.

Now, let’s get back to our conversation with Chris. I want to talk a little bit more about, well, we’ll call it Attorney SEO for now—about understanding how it’s different from traditional SEO. So, how is it different? Let’s say, what’s the differentiator when you talk about doing Attorney SEO or personal injury SEO compared to typical SEO?

Yeah, I think that’s a great point. I always tell people that if I have a client in Los Angeles, I say, “Let’s go look and see what we’ve got going on here.” Often, depending on the level of competition, it’s just not worth it because you have to compete against the big fish in the attorney realm. These guys have big pockets—spending probably hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to be number one, even if there are only 500 searches. You’ve got to figure out what it takes to get to that spot, and then consider how much each lead is worth, assuming you close one. It might be crazy expensive—each lawsuit could be worth 10 million or whatever the number is. In a smaller town, there might be tweaks you can make to become number one without fighting that intense competition, but in big cities like LA, that’s definitely a beast to tackle.

That’s crazy. And the proximity thing is so funny—I wouldn’t have even thought of that. It makes total sense, though. Most of my businesses are online rather than brick-and-mortar, so I don’t have to worry about it, but for those working with attorneys, it really matters. Imagine opening your office just three blocks from a major competitor because it was three cents cheaper per square foot—you’d be shooting yourself in the foot.

That’s the lesson I’m going to tell everyone: if you’re looking to open or move your attorney firm, give Chris a call. Folks, don’t mess it up trying to figure it out on your own with local tools. Just let Chris work his magic. So, what—can you give us some examples of tactics you’ve used to crush it for your clients? I mean, obviously the proximity thing is one tactic that most people who know SEO might not consider. What are some other tactics you’ve used?

I love that. I even remember having you as an expert on one of our expert roundups—if I recall correctly, that was awesome. I always tell people, “If you can use any of the content or ideas I’ve provided, go ahead—put it in your vertical.” When you have successors and others sharing it, that’s fantastic.

Love it. Love it. I love it. Good deal, man—that’s exciting. I know those expert roundups worked really well for us for a long time. Initially, they were great because other people would share them and talk about them. Over time, however, sharing tapered off. In other industries that aren’t as saturated as marketing—where almost everyone does an expert roundup—it might not work as well. But when you use it with an attorney firm, you can get great results.

I remember, whether I was working on a project on the East Coast or in Atlanta, I saw Morgan & Morgan signs everywhere. I kept thinking, “God, do they own every sign?” They’re just everywhere; these guys are spending big bucks. I love how you structure your team with specialized departments that all come together. It’s a unique approach compared to having one person handling three tactics. You’re looking at it from five different angles, each with its own set of sub-factors to determine the best plan for the client.

Yeah, I love that, Tim and his team are always doing some fun stuff. I’ve known Tim for a long time—he’s quite the marketer. Ahrefs has done some interesting things, too; they’re actually one of my favorite tools, and they’ve been a podcast sponsor as well. Good folks there.

So, moving on, I want to talk about some of the common challenges you face, especially since you focus heavily on the PI side of things. And now, with COVID seemingly on its way out—or at least with vaccinations rolling out—what did you guys see? How did the COVID crisis impact the law firms’ marketing efforts that you handle? You’re one of the top agencies in the nation for PI attorney SEO, so what did you observe on your side?

Yeah, and I think that’s the whole reason for the PPP and EIDL loans—to give businesses the confidence to keep operating. It’s interesting, the delay. I wouldn’t have thought of that if I weren’t in the industry, but a six- to seven-month delay makes sense. Without that federal assistance, things could have been much worse. I remember at one point, two of my biggest clients pulled back, and then came back a month later. I told them, “Listen, now is the time to double down because everyone else is pulling out. It’ll be easier to get things going if you sustain your investment.” They eventually thanked me and said, “Sorry, we pulled the trigger too early.” And then, a month later, they were back in action. The PPP was a nice bridge during that period.

That’s interesting. So you have to figure out what kind of law firm you’re dealing with. Some want to fight a long battle that could last two years, while others just want to secure a quick settlement—say, $50K in three months—and leverage that case. How would you determine that about an attorney firm? Is that something you can easily tell?

Paperwork-driven, settling early—gotcha, that makes total sense. That’s funny; I love these kinds of conversations. You clearly have insights into attorney firms that most people wouldn’t consider. It reminds me of why I’m so glad I stay in my lane and let you tackle the big dogs. Thanks, Chris. It’s been a pleasure having you on. Now my listeners know that legal SEO is no cakewalk. Thanks for tuning in, and please don’t go too far—you won’t want to miss the next episode of the Marketing Growth Podcast, where Chris will dive into the top challenges of Attorney SEO.