Wayne Mullins Talks About Fixing Your Website for Conversions

Welcome to the Marketing Growth Podcast. I’m your host, Shane Barker, and we have Ugly Mug Marketing founders, Wayne Mullins, again here to talk about optimizing your website for conversions for listeners who are just joining us for the first time. Here’s a quick recap on our previous episodes. Wayne discussed how to create a winning marketing strategy and the impact of the magic bullet mentality on a marketing campaign. Today, we’re going to talk about fixing websites that don’t convert. Well, I want to talk about fixing websites that don’t convert well because I’ve had a lot of people inquire with me over the years about what exactly that means. So what are, in your opinion, three reasons why sites don’t convert?

I’m going to say this again: you guys have an awesome website, man. I tell you, you guys definitely do, because it’s one of those things that, when I was looking at your website and the way you put it together—and I’ve got a somewhat newer website—I love the aesthetic of your website. I can tell you put a lot of time and detail into it. Once again, kudos to you, because when I first started, I was like, “Oh, I kind of like this.” I was looking around, and it definitely gave me some ideas for clients. Kudos to you. I can tell you have been working on the conversion side of your website. We’ll have, obviously, Wayne’s website here, which is uglymugmarketing.com, and we’ll include that in the show notes as well. So in your experience with all the clients you’ve worked with—high-converting websites—what do they do differently? We kind of talked about some of the things. Is there anything you can say, “Hey, what they do is they’re constantly looking at this or that?” What are some of the things you’ve seen over the years?

And I think that’s a really important part. I don’t think people realize it, and this happens a lot because we work with a lot of SEO clients. I think that works a lot in SEO too—most people create a website just to have one, right? It’s like, “Okay, I’ve got a website, and I’m done with it. Thank God.” I’m like, “We should probably look at it. What have you done for SEO? And what about conversion-based stuff?” And they’re like, “Stay away from me. I just launched my website. I’m going to keep it for the next 10 years. I don’t know. We don’t want to talk about any of that.” So that’s the same thing we talk about with SEO. It’s like, let’s reverse build this, right? Let’s take a look at which keywords you want to index for, what the end journey is, where you want to be, what you want, and what kind of customers you’re looking for. And then, how do you build a website that’s going to be aesthetically pleasing to them? And I love that. I don’t think 98% of businesses do that, and a lot of marketing companies don’t either. Either it’s like, “I just want to build a website for my client,” but there’s a lot more thought process that needs to go into it, right? This isn’t just putting a website up; it’s assuming that you want either to index number one for a certain keyword or you’re looking to convert people—pushing or pulling people from social media or wherever to come to your website and convert at a higher rate. So I love that. I just think that’s a big piece that so many people are missing. So what are some of the… go ahead. You’re gonna say something. I know you have something else.

Awesome. So when I’m looking at conversion for sites, what are some of the basic things you can recommend to get more conversions on your website? You obviously talked about call to actions, but what are some other basic things that people could think about or review on their sites?

Yeah, I love that. And I tell you, guys have done an excellent job. Once again, I keep talking about your website, but the thing is, I bet you did an excellent job. I know there was some footage of you—somebody coming into your shop—and I saw you, and I was like, “Man, this guy’s all over his website,” which is great. That’s the whole point of branding—you want to have those consistent images so people see that, and when they come in and see it, they’re like, “Hey, this is the guy I saw; this guy’s famous. I saw him on the website.” So I love that. I think that’s a big thing. A lot of people miss that branding side of things, and this is your opportunity to shine. Spending a little more money on pictures for branding is absolutely key.

So, obviously, with you guys doing tons of conversion-based stuff and conversion rate optimization, what trends are you seeing in 2021? Is it all the same stuff—as it has been in past years, “hey, you gotta stick with the tried and true”—or is there anything else you’re saying? Man, this is something that’s kind of intriguing to me.

Yeah, and I think that’s going to be, obviously, your bounce rate, the time on page, and how many other pages you go to, and then how engaging that content is. And I think we’ve always known about that, but it’s like, how do you actually, are you successful at doing that? Now, when Google starts—when, you know, big daddy comes along and says, “You have to do this, or I’m going to start de-indexing you”—then I think you’re going to get more and more people to listen. So, yeah, I think it’s going to be interesting. Anytime there’s a Google update, most of the time I’ll cross my fingers. Most of the time our clients are in the clear because we do things the way we do things. Every once in a while, somebody gets slapped for something, and it’s usually because they did something outside of what we told them to do, and it happens. So I’m excited to see this update. Like I said, I enjoy the Google updates. I’ve had plenty of colleagues who do things in the gray hat area who aren’t excited about it—or can be excited about it, depending on what it is. So I guess we’ll see how that all plays out in another few months. Well, cool, man. So now, if you’ve done tons of traveling outside of where you currently live, do you like to be a world traveler at all?

Yeah, no, I can imagine. So what would be, is there one place—and it could be anywhere in the world, even if it’s just 80 miles from where you currently live—that you would want to go now that we’re all going to be, hopefully, COVID free and vaccinated, or whatever is going to happen?

Second opportunity, no. And you know, what’s so funny is, when I was talking about that plan I did at Nichol State—to Costa Rica—I’m a huge fan. I was in school there, loved the ticos and tikas of Costa Rica, used to be fluent in Spanish. I haven’t really practiced it as much as I needed to. My Costa Rican mom would not be happy with me, but that’s okay. After I have a few beers, I start to think I’m fluent again. I don’t know if that’s fully true or not, but Costa Rica is awesome. In fact, I’m going to Costa Rica in another month. We’re heading out there—I’ve got some business stuff out there—but Costa Rica is awesome. I love the land, the people; people are always smiling. Guy who Pinto, like, just platanos, all the fun stuff. I’m hoping you get back out there, man, because you guys will love that—the epicenter and all that kind of stuff. With your son getting sick, you definitely need round two. You got to talk to your wife when you get home. It’s like, “Honey, Shane says we should go to Costa Rica again. We need to give it a second opportunity.” Let me know how that works out for you. Let me know if she gives you the green light.

Hey, anything I can do for you, my friend—I’ll send an email, a courier pigeon, I’ll call her—whatever. Not that I have your wife’s number, because that’s super awkward. But you know, I’ll do whatever I can to make it happen on this side, man. I’m here for the team. absolutely.

So what if you could have any superpower? What would it be? I always ask this question because some people just say some off-the-wall stuff that I like. I never even thought of that as a superpower, but that’s super awesome. Like the last guy I talked to, I think he said, “Oh, teleportation,” where you can pretty much snap your fingers and go somewhere. I was like, “Oh, that would be nice,” because then you could cut down on—I mean, I could be in Costa Rica tonight and be drinking at Pepe Al, you know, hanging out. So what about you? What would your superpower be?

Wow, that’s a good one, because then you can have—you could just, that’s like the genie with unlimited wishes, right? You’re like, “Why would I just do one wish? I want to wish for unlimited wishes.” And you’re like, “Whoa.” That’s like a Trump move. You’re like, “Hey, good, move it over.” And all of a sudden, you’re checkmate. I love that.

Okay, so you would steal other people’s superpowers. Absolutely, man, I gotta know—if I get a superpower, I can’t hang out with you, though, because I don’t want you stealing my superpower, right? Yeah, that’s super nerve-wracking, but I don’t know. We’ll see if I get a superpower. I’ll probably be one of the first people I call right after I convince your wife to take you guys to Costa Rica, of course. Thank you.

Yeah, you’re welcome. I’m here for you, brother. So what are some, any, favorite books or podcasts or anything that have helped shape your career personality? What do you got? This is literally for me, because I’m always improving my list of places I should visit, and also the books or podcasts I should be listening to. So, anything fun?

Timeless. I mean, you can listen to him—there’s a handful of books that I try to get to every year, over and over, because every time I listen to it, it’s like watching a movie again. You’re like, “Oh, I missed that the first time. Oh my gosh, I didn’t even think about that.” And it can be applicable to different times in your life, right? Like, this is when I’m having different struggles, and you read that book, you’re like, “Oh my god, that’s amazing.” So I could tell you’re a book reader, because nobody can see this—we’re doing this on video—but you probably have, I mean, Wayne, how many books you got back there? Probably 30 or 40, 50, I don’t know. There’s books everywhere.

Awesome, that is awesome. Well, Wayne, this has been fun. I knew this was going to be fun talking with you about the conversion side of things. Like I said, I can’t say enough about your website. We’ll obviously include that in the show notes, along with a link to those books, if anybody wants to take a look at them. And if anybody wants to get in contact with you, what’s the simplest way to do that?

Thanks, Wayne, for joining us. It’s been a pleasure having you on the Marketing Growth Podcast. If you’re listening and you like what you hear, make sure you subscribe. Your support has helped us become one of the top 33 business podcasts on iTunes. Thank you for your support. Next week, we’ll talk to another marketing expert and give you valuable insight into what works and what doesn’t. So, stay tuned.