Blogging, PR, and Marketing – Discussing Them with Spin Sucks’ CEO, Gini Dietrich

Welcome to the podcast. I’m Shane Barker, your host of Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness Podcast. Today, we’re going to talk about the benefits of content marketing with Gini Dietrich. Jenny is the founder and CEO of Arment Dietrich, a Chicago-based integrated marketing communications firm. She’s also the lead blogger for the PR and marketing blog Spin Sucks, which has been ranked as a top blog by Forbes, Cision, and other reputable sources. She’s passionate about writing and is the author of two books: Marketing in the Round and Spin Sucks.

I’m excited to have her on the podcast. So when we start this off, I want to talk to you a little bit about where you started. Like, I know you guys are currently in Chicago, right? You live in Chicago—weather right now. Where did you grow up? Did you actually grow up in Chicago?

Salt Lake City, Utah. What? So here’s the thing—I don’t know. A lot of people don’t know this, and it’s not because I don’t tell them, or maybe it’s because I don’t tell them because they don’t know it. Do you have—how long were you in Salt Lake for?

15 years. Now, do you know where Richfield, Utah is at?

I was born there. You know, people are like, “Wait a second. I thought Shane was from California.” And I am—my mom’s gonna love it when I tell all of our personal stories through podcasts, so everybody can know the stories. But my mom and dad, my biological dad, met in Sacramento, California. They decided to go out to Utah. My mom was there for about two weeks. I was born, and we went back—my mom’s Volkswagen Bug—back to California after about two weeks. So you were there for two weeks—good, two weeks—plus, yeah, I mean, it was about 15 days. Was the max.

And, you know, nothing against me. Love Utah. We just—Richfield. My mom was like a California hippie, and she went to Richfield, Utah, which is a little different, and they were like, “Why are you not wearing a bra?”

Yeah, like, what do you mean? Like, I just had a baby. Like, I can totally smoke marijuana. Yeah, that’s not good. You probably should put that out. And she’s like, “Well, I’m gonna go with my Volkswagen Bug. I’ll be right back.” And then we went back to California. So that’s how that story ends.

Yeah, for sure. So why did you guys move to Chicago?

Gotcha, you’ve been so—you’re pretty much in Chicago. Gonna stay in Chicago?

So isn’t that the truth? I mean, we can move anywhere, kind of what we do is all online and based, just like you can go anywhere, like I’ve been saying. I’ve got a buddy of mine, he’s been traveling out of this original garage show that he started. He’s got an ambulance that he’s been crying on my microphone about, but there was a guy there who had an ambulance, which I think is a next-level thing. It’s obviously for someone who’s traveled the U.S., and I’m feeling good. He’s going to go to Texas, or D.C. — he’s in Sacramento. But what’s crazy about it is, he can just pick up, like, obsessively work from his ambulance, you know, basically go to a van, please. Like, “See ya. Sacking these damn users later.” Right?

What do you think about that? Because I’m telling you, that’s what I want to do. I can just go on and go on a good three-month trip, go travel the U.S. and see the world, obviously come up and visit me. I’ve literally been looking at an ambulance yesterday, right? And I was like, “Look at this ambulance, man!” I’m about to have fun. But, like, he looked at the back of his awesome, like, user page, right? About seven days, seven days on an ambulance. I’m reading, like, the track, and it’s so nice because we have that flexibility of being able to do what we do, right? The work starts wherever I am, about seven days. Well, about seven days, seven days on, seven days off. So she would come visit. So I don’t know.

I tell you, my dad did a big trip back in the ’60s. Once again, hippies went off in his Volkswagen bus, traveling all around—well, not literally the whole world, but around the states. He had a phenomenal time. It’s in the back of my mind because I was raised around traveling and stuff, but now I’m thinking, “That sounds like a lot of fun.” Of course, it’s a little different now that I’m married and my son is older. I’m kind of an empty nester, so it’s just a weird deal. I don’t know if I’d actually up and do it, but sometimes I think, “You know what? Maybe I’ll pull the trigger on it someday.” You never know.

He does. What was interesting is, he actually made some really good points. He said that because it’s an ambulance, all the wiring and stuff is top-notch, which makes sense if it’s powering a bunch of equipment. The engine’s got a lot of miles on it, but those vehicles are designed to run and run. If you know what you’re doing, you can rewire it for anything.

I’m just thinking about it—I might. We’ll see. Then I think, “Where would I keep it? Do I park it in front of my house? Is my wife gonna be like, ‘Why do we have an ambulance?’” I look at it, and I’m like, “Yeah, it’s time… it’s time.”

And then there’s the practical stuff, like going to the bathroom if you’re out in the middle of nowhere. It’s a lot. But the main thing is the freedom, right? We can do our jobs from anywhere. It’s a blessing and a curse because you can’t always shut it off, but you can work from a van in the middle of nowhere if you want.

So there are pros and cons. If I did it, I’d do it with my wife, so maybe I’d need a bigger ambulance—or two ambulances—because it’s a big family. Actually, my son’s 21 now, so it might just be me, my wife, and the dog. That’s not too big. But yeah, it’s interesting.

So have you given anything interesting—any fun facts about growing up that maybe nobody knows about? I mean, I don’t know. Like, I always tell people, I grew up in California, but I did go to Indiana. I went to school in Costa Rica for a second. I did, like, immersion, tried to learn Spanish. That was about 20 years ago. I was fluent then, so you know, there are guys who speak Spanish, and that’s me. But 20 years on, I’ve lost a lot.

I mean, it would be if I went to Mexico or Costa Rica, or any place the Spanish-speaking countries are, it’d be second nature. But yeah, again, a lot of people don’t know that. That’s my “alcoholic” secret. And if you, oh, social system, then your Spanish becomes better. And if you understand me, you will definitely be more Spanish.

Yes. I mean, I’m with you. I think it’s people don’t realize how easy language is after you’ve had a few cocktails. So exactly, yeah, we got that out of the way. But anyway, interesting. Anything from your youth you’re like, “Oh, let me think, I never told anyone about this.”

No, okay, there we go. And so you are Mormon. So no, we don’t need to get into any of the religious stuff. But okay, cool. So, wine. I like wine. I hear you. I know that’d be so hard to give up. I know when I went back to visit my dad in Utah, he was like, “Hey, you know the whole beer thing?” I’m talking about how some stuff we can’t drink beer and there’s no places open on Sundays to get beer. And I was like, “That’s legal.” Like, oh, that sounds kind of crazy. We’ve got to go figure that out. We’ve got to go grab a six-pack or something. He’s like, “Yeah, I know, we’ll figure it out. Don’t worry. The family will. We’ll be here absolutely, absolutely.”

And so, where did you go to college?

I think that’s important, you know? I mean, that’s the thing—when you grow up under any religion, right? I think it’s just people, and it depends on how intense that religion is. So you think, “Okay, this is how it is.” And then I think it’s always nice to have other options and see that. Because I think even the issue, especially with kids, is that they don’t have those options. They don’t get the opportunity to look at other paths, because that’s just the way it is.

And I get that—I’m not a heavily religious person. I’m more of a spiritual type. But I do believe it’s important. I think it’s awesome that you were Mormon at one point, and then you said, “Hey, I’m going to go to a Jesuit school,” right? And that, to me, is great. There’s two sides, and there’s so many different things out there. That’s one of the reasons I travel—because I’m very open to trying anything. I’ll go to any church, at least once, just to see if it resonates with me.

I think it’s awesome. My son actually went to a Jesuit high school. Oh, did he? Sacramento? I didn’t send him there because of the Jesuit side of things, but because of the opportunities and the networking. And if the religious side of it resonated with him, awesome. But for me, it wasn’t like, “Hey, I’m gonna go get a Jesuit tattoo.” That’s cool too, right?

I mean, it’s like—hey, you know, so be it. It is what it is. So maybe one day. Just one day. Yeah, so cool.

And then—so you graduated with… was it like, an English degree?

So hello, look at your full brain. Like, some people just use parts of it. You’re like, “I’m going all in.” I can’t even spell statistics. Like, I’m like…

I remember, so I did take statistics. There was—and I can’t even say it—but there was a guy I remember looking up to. Because I was like, “I’ve got to find the teacher that’s, like, easy,” because I just knew that class was going to be a challenge. And I’ll just be extremely honest.

So there was a group of us, and there was a city—it’s called Auburn—and it’s about 45 minutes from here. But we were like, hey, it’s about 45 minutes, but we can all carpool out there. And we went up there, and it was kind of—what was it? I can’t remember his name—phenomenal teacher. And just really, he wasn’t that easy, necessarily, but the way he taught things was, like, he made it so simple. Kind of simple in those, yeah, right? But just would blow us away with stuff. Like he’d say, “Hey, you know, people would ask me to look at this and that, and I would go do this,” and he’d charge them for 15 hours. But really, it’s just this equation.

You plug in four numbers, and I’m like, “That would blow me away, you know?” I mean, of course, he’s been doing it for, I think, like 800 years or something. Like he went to school, like, you know, Jesus. He was like an old guy that just—but was brilliant. And I remember thinking, “Really amazing.”

So it really did, I mean, I did get a good grade in the class, but I think it was also because he was a great instructor. Yeah, and stats is something that’s like—God, if you really get stats, it’s kind of a trip. I mean, just what you can do with it is incredible. The numbers and stuff like that.

What? No, you did—yes, you’re like, “Oh yeah, Auburn.” And I was like, “Wow. She knows about Auburn.”

So you were close to the Sacramento area. Then yeah, that is—yeah, because you said, “Oh yeah, Auburn.” And I was like, wow, she really resonated with the Auburn thing. I was like, “That’s weird,” because nobody knows about—nobody sees Auburn.

Yeah. Okay, there we go. So was that from Utah over, or is it when you were growing?

Shout out to Auburn. Look at this—Gini’s in the house of Auburn. I mean, who knew? That’s too funny.

Well, how did you—okay, so after your journeys and travels and everything, how did you get into the digital space? Obviously, you had a background in English. How did that, I mean, like the digital, almost PR space, right? So how did that transition happen?

Crazy. It’s crazy, the journeys. Because it’s like—this wasn’t even a thing. It wasn’t even a possibility when we were going to school.

Like, nobody said, “Yeah, public relations—you want to be, you know, in digital work.” And you’re like, “Digital?” Like, “What do you mean? Digital?”

Like, yeah, a track. I’m so confused on how this is going to work.

Yeah, exactly! Like, fax? I don’t even know how we would’ve talked through fax. This is crazy. How this is going to work in the future.

And then you end up starting what—Spin Sucks, right? And you started that in 2012?

Wow, look at that. So how did—what made you start a blog? I mean, in 2006, when, like, people were still using, like, notebooks and stuff. Like, I mean, how did—what? What made you think, “You know what, I’m going to start this thing called a blog”? Because I don’t even think they would call them blogs. It was just, like, just…

And then there you guys go. I mean, that’s—what’s it been—13 years? God, that’s crazy. I don’t know why—crazy? Oh yeah, that’s nuts.

I mean, so you guys—there couldn’t have been—I mean, there wasn’t a lot of people talking about PR or anything in the digital space at that time at all.

Can you imagine starting something and it’s just like… there’s a link, and maybe one or two people involved?

Now it’s like PR—everyone’s in on it. It’s evolved so much. But back then, how did it actually grow?

I mean, take you and Bobby, for example. In the beginning, like anything else, you start small. I always joke about my own website. I’ve had it for years, and I’ve been blogging for about eight years.

But those first two years? My articles were awful. Like, really bad. I read them now and cringe. I always say, “Awful” is being generous.

I even show them to my students at UCLA as examples. I’ll say, “Hey, you have to start somewhere,” and then I show them my early stuff. It’s a total disaster, but it’s real.

They look at me like, “You’re teaching us?” and I’m like, “Yup. Somehow I made it.” I’ll be their final exam, and I tell them, “Don’t be an ass—I’m the one grading you.”

But anyway, obviously your blog has done a lot over time—probably a thousand different things by now. So how has it changed?

In the beginning, it was just you writing some posts. But now? You’re writing with a purpose, right?

That’s how it goes though, right? You start somewhere.

And now look—you guys are crushing it. You’ve got huge traction.

I saw that you were named by, I don’t know, five different major companies as one of the originals. That’s a big deal.

It’s wild to think back to where it started—with no SEO, no images, no editor—and now here you are. But that’s how it works. Everything evolves.

It’s just crazy to see how far it’s come.

I’ve gotten the same kind of feedback. And I’m like, “You know why? It’s because I’m not writing anymore.”

It’s like, “Oh yeah, that’s because I got kicked off my own team.”

They don’t let me write in crayon on the blog anymore, I guess.

So how did you all spin this up? You’ve been doing your actual companies—what is it, Arment Dietrich? You’ve been around for, what, 14 years now?

So that was the agency—then your blog, or your website, was Spin Sucks. Did you have two separate websites?

That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s always such a great moment—when you realize, “Wow, I’m glad I did that,” because now you’re speaking and doing this, making it happen.

I’ve mentioned this before, but the way I got my job at UCLA wasn’t through applying. It was because they read my content and said, “Hey, this is what we’re looking for in an instructor.”

So when people ask, “Does content work?”—yes, it does. But it’s a long-term strategy. It’s not just, “Hey, we made something.” It’s about consistency and doing it the right way.

So let’s talk about that—content strategy. You’ve got two different companies. I’m sure there’s overlap, but I’d love to hear about what you guys have done for each one. Maybe start with what it looked like in the beginning and how it’s evolved. What does content strategy look like for both companies today?

So people can still ask you to the dance. Is that who doesn’t want to go to prom? Maybe multiple dates at this point, but hey, no judgment. The point is—I’m available.

Oh, here come the jokes. I wasn’t gonna go there, but you opened the door—polygamy. I love my Wi-Fi, but two wives? I’d be praying for them. I mean, there’s only one me, and I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.

Totally. It’d just be confusing. Like, I’d be with Helen from Tuesday to Thursday, then someone else Friday and Saturday, and by Sunday, I’m out shopping for wife number three. Sounds good until you’re in it. My wife would be like, “Hold up—what’s going on?” And I’d be like, “Yeah, maybe we just stick with Helen full-time.” Kidding! Love you, Joe.

Anyway, we don’t need to go too deep into polygamy. Let’s switch gears and talk business.

When it comes to content marketing, obviously it’s a long-term play. For the companies you’ve worked with, what are some of the big wins you’ve seen? What’s worked best with your clients, and what benefits have you seen from content as a strategy?

Exactly—some traction, right? Like, it doesn’t mean you’re the most popular kid in school, but at least you’re on the radar.

I’ve had clients where they’re like, “Hey, we want to talk to influencers,” and I’m like, “Abby, you don’t even have a social media presence.”

First thing people are gonna do is check your Instagram. If you’re pitching a product you want sold on that platform, they’re going to look. And if you’ve got no presence, why would I rep you?

So the question becomes: What kind of foundation do you have? What do we need to build or fix to get you to a place where we can start pitching people? Maybe you’ve got a great base already—we just need to tighten it up a bit so folks will start writing and talking about you.

Yeah. I mean, we all have that kind of cash lying around for things like that, right? I do. Yes. So, it’s funny when you really think about that whole thing.

I get interviewed on a lot of podcasts, and I keep telling people—the influencer marketing thing works. I’m in that space a lot, especially teaching at UCLA. So it’s funny, because everyone jokes about Fyre Fest, but when you break it down, we have to admit that influencer marketing did work.

It wasn’t the influencers that failed—it was the logistics. The event was on an island, the people organizing it didn’t know what they were doing… but those influencers still made people spend $10,000 on tickets. That’s real marketing power.

Sure, it was a disaster in execution, and there’s a lot we can reevaluate from it. But from a pure marketing lens? It proved that influencer marketing can drive serious action.

Now, the thing we have to watch out for is the type of influencer. Some might have fake followers. It’s tricky. There’s so much chasing vanity numbers now. Feels like all these kids are going after other kids with fake followers. What are we doing here?

It’s like we’re living in a new version of the 1960s, dancing around, buying tickets to God-knows-what because we saw it on Instagram. I mean, really. Just breathe. We’ll figure it out. It’s not that deep. We’re gonna pull through.

Oh, really? Like the trustees are going after them because they were part of the marketing? That’s wild. I mean, if I advertise in a local newspaper and things go wrong, are we suing the newspaper too?

Let me tell you this—I’ve actually been through bankruptcy. So unfortunately, I know a lot about this. The reason the trustees are going after the influencers is because they think there’s money there. Trustees only go where they think there’s money, right?

So if it were me, the influencer Shane Burke out of Sacramento, they’d be like, “He’s got, what, $20 to his name?” Like, why would we go after Shane? No, actually, I had a garage sale. I have $45 to my name. I probably shouldn’t have disclosed that, now they’ll come after me.

But seriously, the point is—if they think there’s money, they feel like there’s also responsibility. And honestly, I don’t think there’s a fiduciary responsibility on the influencer’s part just for promoting something.

The way I see it, as long as you’re not deceiving people, and you’re just sharing, “Hey, this is what the event is supposed to be,” then you’ve done your part. The problem is, they were promoting an event that didn’t happen.

Now, if it had happened, they could say, “Yeah, it was great! We should’ve gone.” But because it didn’t happen, how do you know they were going to deliver on what was promised?

So I get it. I really do. I feel like people might’ve been taken advantage of—especially if influencers didn’t disclose they were paid. That’s a whole other issue. That’s where the FTC gets involved. That’s a scare tactic, maybe.

Honestly, I doubt the trustees will get any money from it, but they’ll go after every angle and see what plays out. It’s wild. Good luck, influencers. Get a lawyer. Just kidding. Not really.

Anyway—what are three softwares or apps you can’t live without? Like, your top three? I know it might be more, but is there a handful that, if they shut down tomorrow, you’d be like, “Noooo…”?

Yeah. Because then you can see where the Emotional Vampires are—the people who just want to have meetings for the sake of meetings.

That’s the beauty of Calendar.com, right? I’m infamous for saying yes to meetings. Then all of a sudden, I’ve got like 19 on the calendar, and I think, “What did I even get out of 14 of those?”

So then I ask myself—who else was in those meetings? Were they asking for stuff? Pitching something? I’ve started to realize, I need to value my time more.

Sometimes I’m super focused on guarding my time. Other times, I get pulled into things—nonprofits, people needing help.

And I’m happy to support where I can. But yeah, if someone’s like, “Hey, I’m doing a GoFundMe for my kid,” I just start to lose it. I’m like, “Let me figure out how I can help you. Are you crying? I don’t know. I’m just a hippie.”

That’s where my head goes—like, “What do you want from me? A hug? Let’s talk it out.” I don’t know, man. But yeah…

Exactly! I could just drive around and collect donations in my ambulance. Sure, there’d be an uncomfortable bed in the back, no toilet—but yeah, that’s the plan.

Just a bearded guy cruising in an ambulance, picking up money for kids… I mean, that sounds borderline shady. Honestly, I’d probably call the cops on myself.

Yeah, fair. That’s going to sound pretty sketchy—red-bearded guy, driving around in an ambulance collecting cash “for the kids.” Doesn’t really inspire trust.

Yeah, probably best not to have “Shane in the ambulance” as a brand—definitely a rough start. It’s like separating two troublemaking kids in elementary school.

Anyway, back to marketing—let’s go there. That’s actually why I changed the name, because, well, you just never know.

So when it comes to content marketing, what brands are killing it right now? Like, are there a few companies where you wake up on a Monday and think, “I need to check out what they’re doing”?

Maybe it’s their campaigns, their tone, how they connect with people. And it doesn’t even have to be the big companies. I know everyone talks about the Nikes or Nestlés of the world, but I’m curious—what about mid-sized or even smaller companies that are putting out great stuff?

Is there anyone that stands out to you lately—someone whose content has genuinely impressed you?

So yeah, to answer that—Wendy’s, they’re hilarious. You’re right, they’re always talking trash, and it’s definitely intentional. That tone has to come from one specific person, I’m sure, and they’re probably paying that person way too much—but also, please never leave! That person is the face of their social media now, which is kind of scary but also exciting.

And you’re seeing others do it too. I think the Sacramento Kings started doing something similar. They’ve been throwing shade at other teams and even responding to people directly, talking trash in the comments. It’s hilarious. You don’t expect that from a brand, which makes it stand out even more.

You know, some companies try to play it super safe, all smiles and polish, but Wendy’s? They came at everyone—McDonald’s, Burger King—and it totally worked. It got tons of eyeballs. That sass and personality? It draws people in. And again, it’s probably just one really talented person behind the curtain. So, please, corporate Wendy’s, don’t lose them!

You also mentioned Buffer. I’ve always liked what they do. Seriously, shout out to them for keeping their pricing reasonable. I think it’s still, what, seven bucks? I don’t even know how they stay in business with prices that low, but mad respect. They’ve built something great and stayed true to it.

And Jay Baer—man, I just saw him at Conex in Toronto recently. He was putting on a workshop, and yeah, he’s as consistent as ever. I mean, I’m sure he’s got a great team behind him, but still. It’s like, dude, save some ideas for the rest of us! He’s like that person at a garage sale who gets there early, grabs all the good stuff, and you’re left holding your wish list. You’re like, “Cool, thanks for grabbing all the brilliance before I even had my coffee.”

So yeah—shoutout to Jay.

But now I’m curious—what inspires you? You’re a writer, that’s your background. You’ve got your PR space, your blog. What gets you out of bed in the morning? What sparks your creativity?

Yeah, that’s so cool. And, I mean, I want to touch on your book too—Marketing in the Round, right? You co-authored that one. Is that where you talk about some of these client success stories? I’ve had people recommend the book and say it really speaks to senior-level marketers—folks who are maybe a little more lean or strategic in their thinking.

So for those who haven’t read it yet, what’s the premise? Do you include testimonials or examples from your client work?

And you’ve actually got a newer book out, right? I mean, newer than the last one, and it’s called Spin Sucks. So what’s the premise behind that book? What inspired it?

Gotcha. So you’re telling me sex doesn’t sell anymore?

Oh, so all the books, huh? That’s interesting, because every book I buy seems to have something about sex in the title. I guess I need to quit buying those books. That’s probably something to bring up in counseling!

But seriously, I’m definitely going to get your book soon. It sounds like a better use of my reading time. And you also co-host the Inside PR podcast, right? So that’s more communication-focused. How long have you guys been doing that?

So here’s the thing—I feel like more people need to follow you because you always seem to be ahead of the curve. I know you say Jay’s ahead of things, but honestly, I think you are too. You’re like, “Oh, I started a website back in, what, 1923,” and I’m like, “You’re not that old.” We did a packet—well, your grandmother probably started it, and then you picked it up. Great-grandmother wisdom, right? She probably gave you a head start.

But seriously, when you guys launched Inside PR, I think you said that was six years ago? Meanwhile, I just started interviewing people for my own podcast—either August or October of last year. We joke about it, but that’s the truth. We launched in July, so yeah, you do the math—thanks for the extra motivation!

We’ve talked about writing books, and you told me, “You really gotta stay on your deadlines.” I’ve been over here trying to write mine in crayon for, I don’t even know how long. And people keep asking, “Why haven’t you finished it?” And I’m like, “I don’t know! I’m just that guy.” We all thought this book project would be quick, and now it’s turned into a beast—like a full-on beast.

But anyway—coming back to podcasts—you guys started yours six years ago. That was before podcasts really blew up. It’s only in the last few years that it feels like people have really started to tune in. Now people are like, “Hey, this is awesome.” You can learn so much by listening to others share 10+ years of experience. So I’m curious—why did you start your podcast in the first place?

That’s crazy. Like, yeah—it’s probably because you’ve got so much else going on, right? I mean, I was watching TV thinking, “What am I supposed to do?” I don’t even remember now, but yeah, that’s really cool. Less than 1% of podcast hosts are female? That’s wild. You’re breaking through again. That’s awesome.

Time to boost those numbers, sister—right? Moving on up, like Georgia! So we’ve already talked about content and some of your background, but let’s switch gears. How do you spend your weekends? Like, what hobbies do you enjoy? You grew up in Utah, which is super outdoorsy and awesome, and now you’re in Chicago—also amazing. So, what do weekends look like for you these days?

That’s awesome. So do you travel to race, or is it more of a local thing?

Nice. Yeah, my wife’s brother—Don. Not yet, Don. You must know him. I’m sure Don from Reno, of course—I totally know him. No, he was writing rowdy for a bit. They were doing fine, no kidding. But yeah, he wasn’t. He was, well—shout out to Don, but I don’t know if Don’s that good. I think he’s just a good… I think he’s just got a good mouthpiece.

Actually, he’s a big boy, which is kind of funny because most good cyclists are smaller guys. But Don, he’s up there on the podium, and you see these little guys next to him—it looks like his two kids or something. And he’s like this big, giant guy. He’s built like a rugby player—stocky and powerful—and he’s super intense. He dives all in with anything he does, especially cycling.

He’d wake up at 4:30 or whatever and train for three hours. Total beast. He just loved it. Does he still ride? No, not really anymore. It’s more skiing now, and he’s getting a little older, so it’s slowed down a bit.

He transitioned from rugby to cycling, and you know, cycling is intense. I’ve seen the falls, the bruises. People think, “Oh, it’s just cycling.” But no—it’s strategy, positioning, catching someone’s draft, elbows out, mistakes. Don used to break it down for us like, “You gotta catch somebody else’s wind.” And then suddenly your team lowers their head, and you go. It’s wild. There’s a lot more to it than people think. Honestly, it kind of blew my mind. But it’s definitely dangerous.

And that’s really admirable. Because, you know, some people would say, “I don’t have a problem leaving my child without a mother.” But you’re out here thinking, “How can I make sure I’m still here to raise my kid?” That’s a beautiful mindset.

Small goals, right? That’s good. So, do you do a lot of traveling?

That’s not too bad. And hey, since you’ve traveled to so many places, what are some of your favorite destinations? Like, any place that totally blew your mind? For me, it was Amsterdam. Oh man, I loved Amsterdam. It’s such an amazing city. Bundle Park, those little wooden bikes—they’re everywhere…

Actually, funny story—my first and only tattoo is from Amsterdam. Yep, my first and last tattoo, all in one. There was this guy over there who used to tattoo all kinds of famous artists. I can’t even remember his name, but I just walked in and said, “Let’s do it.” This was years ago, but man, what a time. Amsterdam is such a fun city.
Alright, so here comes the hard part—my final question for you as we wrap this up. We’ve had a great chat, but we’ve gotta land the plane here.
Let’s say I handed you a credit card with $50,000 on it. You’d have to pay it back eventually, of course—it’s not that kind of podcast—but I’m giving you the choice.
Or better yet, I’ll just give you $50K in cash because, you know, that’s the kind of host I am.
What would you do with it?
Would you buy a new bike? Take your husband and daughter on a trip? Go solo on a dream vacation? Would you buy me an ambulance?
No pressure. Totally open question.

Now you’re a giver! That’s exactly what I’d do too. You should probably drive it, though—because, yeah, I feel like I’d…

You’re hired—for the ambulance. But now you have to drive it. You’re like, “Is this for real?” Yep. Honestly, this feels like when I bought my wife a vacuum for her birthday. Like, “Happy birthday, now go clean!”
So is this for me to use or for you to use? And I’m like, “I can use it.”
We might need to do another press release about this, though—because you bought me the ambulance, I’ll pay for it, and then they’re like, “Wait, you also got a driver!”
It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
Thank you so much for the opportunity. Are you going to charge me for this, or is this just volunteer Shane now?

I would hope so. I’m not cheap—not super smart, but definitely not cheap.
Anyway, this has been so fun.
It kind of sucked that we had to wait months to finally make this happen, but here we are. It literally took months, but now we’re here—like two podcast angels with wings.
So if anyone wants to get in touch with you, what’s the best way? A good webinar? A landing page?
I know you’ve got like 19 businesses, but let’s keep it simple. SpinSucks.com, right? That’s the easiest. Just head to SpinSucks.com, click contact, and Gina will get back to you.
Gina, you’ve been amazing—an absolute angel. This was everything I hoped it would be and more.
And once we get in that ambulance, we’ll do a live simulcast. Every. Single. Week.
Tell your husband I said thanks. I’ll let my wife know that we’re hitting the road, bringing the whole family along for the ride.

All right—have a great rest of your day.

We’ll talk soon.