How to Tap Into Your Purpose with Dr. Linda F. Williams

Welcome to the podcast. I’m Shane Barker, your host of Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness podcast. My guest today, Dr. Linda Williams, is going to talk about life coaching and how to turn your pain into power.

She’s the founder of Whose Apple Dynamic and the author of Whose Apple Is It Anyway?, empowering purpose to achieve your God-ordained destiny.

She’s a keynote speaker, business consultant, and certified executive coach. Listen as she talks about healing your past traumas, tapping into your purpose, and growing your business—and the life of an entrepreneur.

Figured we’ll just jump into this. Like I said, I know we’ve been talking for a little bit now that we can hear me better.

You know, usually what we do is we start off with just some, like, foundational questions on where you grew up and that kind of thing, and we kind of jump into it.

Like, as I touched on, there’s a lot of things you’ve done in your career, and so I’m excited about exploring some of those things and talking about your experience.

And so anyway, I’m excited about the next steps.

Yeah, absolutely. So tell us a little bit. So you’re currently—you’re in Michigan right now, right?

Awesome, awesome, awesome. So tell us, did you grow up in Michigan? Or kind of give us a little background.

No, no, it’s okay. You can throw around some words.

So, from nine to eighteen, your dad said, “Hey, we’re gonna move to a place where the grass is taller than everybody in our family.”

And then, like—what happened, Dad? Why? Why are we in so much trouble? Was he? Were you in the witness protection list or something? I mean, what happened? There’s gotta be something.

Wow. That is incredible. Just that backstory—because it’s like, it’s one of those things, like, he’s always wanted to add land, and all of a sudden he’s like, “Now we got the land.”

You’re like, “This is awesome. Wait—what do you mean the house is half done?”

You’re like, “No, we’re gonna—we gotta work. That’s what we gotta do.”

That’s crazy. And so when you were 18, you just said, “Hey, I’m out of here,” right?

And then that was… that was… but then you obviously moved back, right?

I mean, you’re in Michigan now, right?

We’ll end this conversation quick, huh? You’re like, “No, sorry. Gotta talk to tone.”

Ain’t that crazy? Our parents have mind control over you.

Like, there’s no way I’m doing that. I hang up, like, “There’s no way.”

And then 30 days later, you’re like, “I just sold everything. I’m not sure what’s going on.”

It’s that Jedi mind trick of parents.

Yeah, that’s awesome, man. That is something else I love—the backstory on that.

So, your dad got land, you obviously got out at 18, and said, “Hey, like, you know…”

I think it’s always a hard time—especially from Chicago to Michigan, right? That is definitely a cultural shock for sure, with what you got going on.

But obviously, parents making the decision—hopefully the right decision—hopefully to protect you.

But at the end of age nine, like, how do you know? You’re like, “This doesn’t make any sense.”

You know, my friends are in Chicago, right? Like, why?

And obviously, moved to this place called Michigan—it wasn’t even on the map for you. And then here you are.

Yeah. And where did you go to school?

I know you’ve—you’ve got a few diplomas, because I’m—we’re on a podcast, and I’m looking at, like, 39 diplomas that you got behind you.

Man. Look at that. I can’t even spell half those. That’s when you know you’re educated.

I’m like, my God, I was looking behind there. Just—congratulations on all you’ve done.

And this domestic violence stuff—so obviously, he was—well done. You got him.

Is that the reason why he went to prison? Not that we need to go heavy into that, but I was just kind of curious.

I gotta be careful. We go too far down that rabbit tunnel…

We’re not gonna talk about any of the other stuff. This is—the thing is, like—we start talking about that, I’m like, in query mode. I want to know, I want to know what’s going on. So this is okay.

So we’ll leave that one alone for now. But you’re friends with your original husband, so you’re still on good terms there. Yeah, both of them. That’s awesome.

Well, you seem like you’re a likable person. That’s probably why they were like, “You know what? I probably messed that up a little bit,” right?

You’re like, “I was trying to at the time.” Got him. That’s awesome.

So now, once again—I tell you—I don’t even know where to start with you, because you’ve done so many things.

So let’s talk about… So, you’ve got the Whose Apple site, right? What you’ve done, what you have on your website.

Let’s talk about that a little bit—because obviously, you do a lot of coaching and consulting.

I want to kind of talk about, like, how you—because obviously your degrees—like, where you started off in college, and then where, what was your career path? And, like, how did you get into what you’re doing today?

That’s awesome.

Funny enough, my dad was a social worker too.  He was president of the teachers association. I’m here in Sacramento. He worked at Wells Leo Palmer.

I grew up in a public service family—my mom was a nurse, my dad was a social worker. It was just part of our life.

Yeah, but the thing is, social work—it’s such a good business. There’s just so much going on, especially these days, right?

We’ve got Coronavirus and all the other stuff we’re dealing with right now. But that’s awesome.

You’re doing selfless work by helping other people. I think that’s awesome.

That’s what’s awesome about it. Your journey has been quite colorful—the things you’ve done, right?

That’s what I love about people’s journeys. That’s why I love having this podcast.

Sometimes we talk about marketing, sometimes about other stuff, but really what it comes down to is—I love hearing people’s stories.

Everybody’s story is different in terms of what they’ve had to deal with in life and how they dealt with it.

We’ve all been punched in the face a few times, right?

So how do you get back up? How do you keep going?

How you fall in some stuff sometimes and sometimes you don’t—and sometimes you’re like, “I don’t know how I got here, but here I am.”

That journey is just always so intriguing to me.

Yeah, that’s it. They say the same thing about entrepreneurship—you know, you have those little ups and downs.

Of course, we’re on a podcast, so you can’t see it, but they always show the journey as this straight line from point A to point B. But in reality, it’s all over the place—up and down.

And that’s life. That’s how it goes.

I think it’s really cool that you’re probably using a lot of the stuff you’ve learned throughout your life in your coaching and consulting work.

Can you touch on that a bit—what you’ve got going on today?

I mean, I’ve looked at your resume and everything else you’ve been involved in. We only have an hour, so we’ll have to condense it down a bit, but tell us about what you’re currently doing with your coaching and consulting. What do you do?

Yeah, no, I agree with you. I think a lot of that gets missed. Especially with social media, right? Because everyone feels like they have to be perfect—or at least portray that image.

But the truth is, that’s all BS. Nobody’s perfect.

And I think people resonate way more with authenticity—when you’re honest about your real story and the things you’ve been through. The good, the bad, the ugly.

Where we’re at today—I’m a better marketer because of my failures, not necessarily because of my successes. And I’m very open about the things I’ve done—whether they were good, bad, or somewhere in between.

I was raised in a pretty open household. My dad was a social worker, and my mom was a nurse. She was a hugger. They were hippies. So what else was I supposed to do besides talk, right? That was my upbringing—talk about what’s going on and how you’re feeling.

For me, I’ve always carried that over into both my personal life and my marketing. I started my blog eight years ago with the intent of educating people. Just saying, “Hey, here’s what we did that worked—and here’s what we did that didn’t.”

And I think that’s true for everything in life. I’ve had way more unsuccessful businesses than I’ve had successful ones. But everything is foundational. Every failure teaches you something that builds toward success.

It just takes time. But it’s important to talk about those things.

And when it comes to the things you’ve had to deal with in your past—especially stuff like trauma—it can hold you back without you even realizing why. Whether it’s shame, confusion, or asking, “Why did this happen to me?”—there’s so much under the surface.

And yeah, I hate to use the onion analogy, but it’s true. It’s like peeling layers—every piece you uncover is part of your healing. It’s not simple.

I had a guest on the podcast a few days ago—similar situation. She had been raped. We were supposed to talk about marketing, and we ended up diving into this really emotional conversation.

And I think people don’t fully understand how much healing has to happen.

It’s not as easy as going to a counselor for an hour and getting a pill or a magic solution. It doesn’t work like that. It stays with you. It haunts you.

There’s always something else that comes around and triggers it, and it’s about figuring out how to get through it.

Now, you’ve reached a point where you’re embracing it—you’re okay with telling your story. And I have to imagine, now that you’re more open about it, you’ve had more people come to you and say, “Hey, this happened to me too.”

Have you seen more people open up to you?

Because I think once you open up, it gives other people the space to do the same. Have you noticed that happening?

Yeah, I think that’s the important part, isn’t it? I think that’s probably one of the most difficult things—because once again, I mean, just depending on how you’re raised and other things that have happened, it’s people.

A lot of times you’re taught not to go there. You don’t want to bother anybody with this. You don’t want to tell people—you’ll be embarrassed, or you’ll make the family look bad, or whatever that is. A lot of that plays into it.

And I think it’s one of those things that, once you shed that—which is extremely difficult—especially these days with social media and everything like that, and we’re in the public eye with public speaking and platforms like this—it becomes difficult.

You either have to go all in. You can’t go halfway, right?

You can’t say, “I’m gonna kind of tell a few things,” and then stop when people ask questions. You can’t.

There’s a point where it becomes very freeing—where you get to a point where you’re like, “I’m just going to tell people what happened, what’s going on,” and be comfortable with it.

And people are going to accept it how they accept it. Some people will, some people won’t.

But at the end of the day, it’s about self-healing and making sure you’re taking care of yourself. That’s important.

And a lot of people don’t do that these days.

Yeah, and that’s just a terrible thing—because it’s like you feel like you deserved it, or there was a reason.

You provoked it. Or you should have, you know—it’s like whatever that is. And that’s just terrible.

That’s not just anybody should, you know—especially if you’ve had to go through that.

But I also feel that afterwards, it’s like—it’s a second and, you know, if you don’t talk about it and tell people about it, then you’ve got these demons in your head.

And you start to think these things that aren’t true. But you don’t have anybody else to support you.

Wait a second. That’s like—why would you even think that? Who challenged those lies?

Yeah. No, I can. I mean, listen, I’ll tell you. I’ve never told him. I had a situation. I don’t know how many years ago, but I had it with a friend of mine that actually was through church. It was a whole other story. We were adults, and we—you know, I went out to—I’m not gonna say the city, because I don’t, you know, want her to be in a weird situation. I haven’t seen her since then, but it was absolutely a situation where I was forced into something that I had to physically try to get out of. And I did, thank goodness. And she was. It was just one of those weird situations I would never have imagined. She was a friend from church, and she was strictly a friend—like, in fact, I think I had a girlfriend at the time. This was probably 25, maybe 30 years ago. It was a long time ago. Maybe not 30, maybe 20, 25 years. But anyway, yeah, it was a crazy little—you know, and that was the kind of thing I never really thought about—how that affected me—because I did get out. It was still a weird situation, but I was, you know, I was able to get out. I think probably because I was physically stronger than she was. But I can’t imagine not being physically stronger and being in a situation like that, where you’re not able to get out, right? Because that’s when it becomes traumatic. Not just in the sense of the act, but because there was trust there, right? Like, hey, we were friends, we went out, had some drinks, and everything was fine. I must have been—yeah, and then all of a sudden there’s this situation. I’m like, what just happened? Even looking back at it, it’s just a crazy, crazy deal.

So yeah, it’s interesting. But you—how are you using that? Obviously, everything you’ve learned, it’s like you’ve got the knowledge, the degrees, but are you using that today, like with your consulting, like how are you tying that in? You sound like you have a very clear purpose on what you’re doing. I mean, other than the book and everything else you’ve done—what is your focus now? Where are you looking to put your efforts?

That’s crazy. So did you think this is something you were maybe born with, and that maybe the education kind of backed it up—like how to understand what you’re seeing and how to handle it?

That’s awesome. That’s powerful stuff. I’ll tell you, when you think about that, it’s—you know, don’t leave that behind, right? I think that’s some of the trauma you mentioned. It’s like you get to a point where you forget who that person was or how you used to be, and going back to that original time.

I think about kids—just in general. In the sense of, like, kids are so honest. The things they say, the way they think—they’re very untouched, right? In the sense of, they just say whatever comes to mind. And it’s like, you know, sometimes his parents go, “Oh, don’t say that,” but it’s like, God, it’s cute. It’s who you are.

You’re you. That’s how you were. That’s life. That’s how you did it. And going back into that and being able to say, “Hey, listen, this is who I was back then, and I want to go back to that.”

Right? I want to go back into that and get back on my path, because I’ve gotten off a little bit. But because of what’s happening, yeah, we can now get back on track.

Do you think your dad, after, like, four degrees, said, “All right, Linda, I see what you got going on. Honey, you don’t need to get more than four. I was for the max.”

Or your dad says, “Okay, hey, you’re good. You’re good. Yeah, just breathe. Breathe. Now you gotta take care of the other stuff you get.”

That’s awesome. That’s the kind of OCD you want. I know, you know. So it’s funny—OCD can be a blessing and a curse, right?

Where there’s something on the table, you move it out of the way. You’ve got to get it done. And the other part is like, “Sorry, I’ve got something on the table—I’ve got to get it done,” right?

It’s difficult to control, but it helps keep you motivated and keeps things going. It’s like, “Yeah, I don’t need anybody to push me in the morning. I know what I’ve got to get done.”

The other side of it is like, “Oh, you’ve got to stay out of Linda’s way because she’s going to be gone for it,” you know?

No, no. She’s not even going to know who you are. Just move out of the way. You don’t want to be a victim. Just let her get her stuff done.

You look like you’re doing something, right? I gotta be honest. I know this is a podcast, but everybody, go look at Linda’s picture.

Yeah, I don’t know what you’re doing—if you’re using oil valet or something, cucumber masks.

I mean, I’ve never been a Black female, so I’ve never been a white female.

Well, you’re gonna be fine for a while. You might as well save that money and put it in your account because you’re looking—no, I’m being serious.

Sixty? I would’ve never guessed, honestly. I mean, being dead serious.

Come on now, don’t act like you don’t know. Don’t think you look young.

So I have a question—real question. When you’re hanging out with him, do people think you guys are a couple? Sometimes?

So this is what’s funny. My mom’s gonna—my mom’s listening, so she’s gonna love this story.

My mom gets it all the time. So my mom looks very young, and there’ve been a handful of times where it’s happened more and more.

Like, we’ll be hanging out—my wife’s a nurse, she works graveyard or nights—so I’ll hang out with my mom or take her to dinner.

And we’ve had people go, “Oh, it’s cool. Like, do you guys want… you know, like, I can, like, we’re a couple.”

And I’m like, “Whoa. Like, he looks your mom,” and that’s why I was asking.

I’ve been in that situation. I’m like, does that mean she’s really young, or I look really old?

Like, I’m still trying to figure it out. I do. I need to color the beard. Or, like, what do I need to do to make sure we’re good?

I’ll take that. Well, my mom obviously looks younger than I do. So, shout out to my mom—whatever she’s doing, right? Probably oil. Valet, actually, was oil. I do remember that.

Actually, let me bring that back. Okay, well, I’m going to get me some, man.

Well, I don’t think you need any. But anyway, I think you look great.

Guys—go check her out. I mean, I have to be honest, you really don’t look 63. You’re doing a phenomenal job.

You still out there working out and doing your thing, or what’s—

Man, you know, it’s funny—I’ve got a knee situation as well. I used to run quite a bit, and I still do a little. I’m still kind of OCD about it. Like, Fitbit? I’ve got a Fitbit. Here’s a funny story—I used to wear two different watches. One was a nicer watch I’d wear when going out, and the other was more functional—something I could wear to run, sweat, or work out in. I’ve had some really nice watches over the years, ones I got from previous businesses I sold, and I just never wore them. Why? Because I didn’t want to lose out on steps.

So just recently, I bought that little Fitbit you can clip on your belt, and now I get to wear my nice watches again. I didn’t wear them before because I didn’t want to miss tracking steps. I’d rather wear a not-so-nice watch if it meant I could track every step. I’ve had the Fitbit for about six or seven years now, and I swear, maybe once, I forgot it when I went for a walk—and I just froze.

I literally stopped and thought, “I need to figure something out. I need to call my wife and have her drop it off.” Every step I was taking, I felt like I wasn’t getting credit. I’m thinking, “You’ve lost your mind. You’re stopping—not because of a snake or someone holding you up—but because you don’t have your watch on to count steps?”

I think I did call my wife, and she was like, “You’ve lost your mind. Just walk back. Walk your ass back. You can manually enter your steps later. But no, I’m not bringing your Fitbit like it’s an inhaler or something.” And honestly, I don’t blame her. I would’ve done the same thing. It’s probably like when you hung up on your mom—I was like, “Nope. That’s not happening. You’re on your own.” Ridiculous.

Anyway, I want you to talk a little more about your coaching. You mentioned earlier that your coaching isn’t surface-level—it’s deep. You can really dig in, really understand someone, assess their situation, and help. That’s not just training—it’s something you were born with. Like, “I’m a good judge of character. I can read people.” That’s not something you can teach.

So how does that play into your business consulting? Give us a little snapshot—how do you bring that gift into your coaching and consulting work?

I love the “boot to the glute.” Like when you said that, you just threw that out there, and I caught it, like three seconds after. She just said, “boot to the glute.”

And I’m like, I might go get that on a shirt. Man, a big old 18 wasn’t Shaq’s shoe—like 18 or something? It was like 26, I remember. Some crazy number.

That was a little hidden gem for me. I’m gonna go get a shirt made. I’m gonna go tell my son, “Hey, boot to the glute. Get out there.”

Where’d you pick that up? Just pick that up from Linda. She’s using oil over layer. She’s using oil valet, and now I’m using “boot to the glute.” That’s what we’re doing—we’re trading things out today.

Even the podcast, what we hear that’s what we hear—is that it? Well, tell us about your journey and the things you’ve done—especially being an entrepreneur.

I know you worked for the federal government for 30-something years and now you’re an entrepreneur.

Talk about your journey—what are some of the struggles you’ve had to deal with?

A lot of people listening are entrepreneurs or in startups, and we all go through trials and tribulations. Talk a little about that.

I know about your past and the stuff you’ve gone through recently—or I guess in the past—but talk about what you’ve done more recently.

What are some of the things you’ve gone through as an entrepreneur and now growing your business?

You’re talking about a sales funnel, which I thought was awesome. You finally got some sales stuff going.

You’ve been niching down and stuff—talk a little more on that.

Yeah, no, you’ve done some soul searching, right? And I think it’s taken a while—like it does for a lot of people. Some people never get there.

And I think a lot of people—probably a lot of people listening to this podcast—have gone down that road where you buy this course, that program, try this, try that, and you’re trying to recreate someone else’s success.

At the end of the day, you’re chasing something that, of course, looks good—especially when that person’s out there with their rented Lamborghini or whatever. I’ve heard about that, yeah? You can rent those things by the hour, two hours, whatever it is.

You see the shiny stuff, and you get excited. And not to say some of those folks don’t have good information—but trying to follow exactly what they did, step for step, is where people go wrong. Because it’s going to take failure. That’s the part people want to skip—failure.

It’s funny, I’ve got a company I’m building with a buddy of mine, Chris Rudin. He’s diabetic, disabled, and an amazing powerlifter. He was on The Rock’s show, The Titan Games. We’re launching a brand around the idea of “Fail Forward”—we’re doing T-shirts and more.

Because people are afraid to fail. But failure is part of success.

I’ve had people ask me, “How can I be successful?” And I say, “Fail as many times as you can.” And they look at me like, “That’s your answer?” Yes. That’s literally my answer.

I’m not saying don’t work hard or hustle—but you’re going to fail. Be okay with that. That’s part of the path.

And I think for you, that soul searching brought clarity on who you really are. You were chasing certain things—we all do. We’re all guilty of it. Some of us figure it out after a year, some after five years, and some never do.

But now, you’re at a point where you recognize your superpowers. You understand who you are. And now, you’re ready to show up and talk to the world—bring your expertise to the table.

That’s something a lot of people don’t realize. Even if you’re creating a course, doing coaching—everyone has something they can teach someone.

It’s just hard for people to believe that about themselves.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s the thing. You have some kind of course or program—you can build people. But people don’t really care what I’ve gone through. What they care about is what we can do—because there’s experience behind it.

I’ve gone through things. That’s why I write on my blog. I talk about stuff I want people to know—like mistakes, or how you can learn to do marketing.

You can save yourself five months by doing this, or you can do that. It’s a great course for cheap instead of going after the $10,000 course.

The idea is to help each other.

Yeah, that’s it.

If it looks too easy, trust me, there’s something else there. There’s something else going on. We always talk about this—I call it my spider sense. If I’m looking at something, I’m like, “This just doesn’t seem right.”

If it seems too easy, too quick, or “buy this and you’ll be successful instantly,” I’m like, “Nope, not falling for that.” I didn’t fall for that when I was younger.

Sometimes I look at offers and think, “Not saying I haven’t emailed a few guys to trade out—like, ‘Hey, give me access to your course, I’ll give you access to mine.’” But still, it’s interesting to see the patterns.

I think, as we get older, we evolve, we hopefully get wiser, right? About the stuff going on.

So what about future projects? Coaching, consulting—everything’s going awesome there. But what else?

You’ve got anything else in the future? I mean, I know you’re probably one of those crazy entrepreneurs like me. You’ve got 10 other ideas after this. Are you strictly focused on consulting and coaching?

Yeah, I hear you. I’ve had three paid gigs canceled in the last three weeks. Canceled overnight—within 48 hours.

They’re like, “Hey, we’re done, cancel.” Everybody’s pushing them out.

So that’s not a bad thing. But yeah, it’s just… this podcast might be the only thing we’ve got the next few weeks.

Unfortunately, we’re probably still at the beginning stages of this coronavirus thing. It’s just crazy. I mean, I’m in California—we’re on lockdown.

Are you getting locked down in Michigan, or no?

Well, I mean, the only good thing about that is, hopefully, it’s because you guys aren’t in a high-risk category. That’s the only reason I’m hoping people are reacting slowly to this.

They obviously want to calm things down, flatten the curve, stop the spread. And I get it. I’m for whatever it takes. I know it’s going to affect a lot of people—the economy, recessions, it’s going to bring a lot of things—but being an optimistic and positive person, I think some good stuff will come from it.

It’s hard when you’re in the middle of it, but I truly believe some good things will happen. I honestly do. My heart believes that.

No, no, no. That’s something you’ve got to watch out for. But the thing is, there’s the media and all kinds of stuff that can play a big part in keeping people fearful.

They’re beating it to death. You could spend 15 hours a day staring at different stats from here, there, and everywhere.

At the end of the day, just protect yourself. Wash your hands. Stay inside. Keep your circle small. Be mindful of who you’re around and just try not to go crazy.

Still go on walks, do your thing.

That’s exactly it. So cool. Once again, Linda, I knew this was going to be a fun interview, so I’ve got one last question for you. And I’m always like this—this is one of my favorite questions.

If you had three people that you could have dinner with—dead or alive—who would that be? Who would be at your table? Assuming we’re all COVID-free and we can invite them and all have dinner together, who are your three?

Probably assassination. Probably has some intel. I know. I’ll never forget—my mom talked about the day that happened, and she’s like, it was her.

She came home and her mom was crying. My grandma was crying. Had no idea. Didn’t really see my grandma cry too much, and she was just distraught about it.

So you weren’t born. I was. No, I wasn’t. I’m 44 now, so almost 45…

Ah, you are, right? Or you might be. You might be running side by side with her.

Sorry, mom, but I’m just… you gotta look her up. You guys figure out who was younger.

Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. When you have that kind of person, they really have that kind of impact on the community.

That’s awesome. We’re gonna make that happen. I’m gonna reach out to him and tell him, “Hey, you gotta listen to this podcast. You’ve got a fan. We need to have dinner.”

We need to figure out dinner logistics. I’ll pay for dinner. I’ll talk to him.

Yeah, okay, you do that.

Linda, you’re an angel. It was—Adam and I were so glad to have you on the podcast today. You’re an absolute angel.

Thank you for everything you’re doing for the community, for giving back, for telling your story, and for showing how you’re able to touch everybody—and, once again, touch their hearts.

I appreciate everything you’re doing.

Absolutely.

Well, like I said, we’ll be chatting again soon.

And you guys—if you like listening to this podcast, if you like what you hear—make sure you subscribe to it.

Once again, I have to say this all the time. I’ve got my How to Be an Influencer course. That’s howtobeaninfluencer.com—my course on how to be an influencer.

Again, less about how to, you know, get diamonds or be on private flights—really more about how to be an entrepreneur, how to put together a good campaign, and how to reach out to brands.

So once you guys check that out—Linda, thank you so much for being on the podcast.