The Relevance of SEO in an Effective Content Marketing Plan with Aaron Agius

Welcome to the podcast. I’m Shane Barker, your host of Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness Podcast. Today’s episode is about SEO and content marketing. We’ll discuss how to create great content and optimize it for better search engine rankings. I have with me Aaron Agius, a leading digital marketer and co-founder of Louder.Online. He’s a pro at intelligent and effective search and content marketing. Listen as he shares the best SEO advice and talks about being audience-focused and keyword-focused in content marketing. You’ll learn how to leverage SEO to make your content perform better. It’s totally worth your time. So, tell me a little bit about yourself. I can tell from the accent that you’re from the United States, right? Just kidding. No, seriously, tell me where you grew up. Give me a little background on Aaron’s life.

Yeah, so let me tell you this. When you were one year old, you decided you wanted to move to Australia. That’s kind of young, don’t you think? Very independent. What did your mom and dad think? Were they just like, “He’s one, what are we going to do?”

Probably needed you to kind of be a, kind of a parent figure. I mean, you’re one, so it’s like, I think that’s awesome. You brought your parents along.

I’m sure you’re probably bringing in a lot of money at that time. It’s okay. So let’s not, let’s not digress here. So okay, so you went into Australia, obviously, because it’s an awesome place that I’ve been to, by the way.

Yeah, so, your family. Big family, Mom and Dad. I mean, obviously, you have a mom and dad, because you’re here. We don’t need to go into heavy detail on that, but, like, brothers, sisters—what do we got going on?

Gotcha. And are you, obviously you might be a little biased. You think you’re the most intelligent out of all the kids?

Yeah, you’re like, “Listen, I trust your guys’ opinion.” Yeah, yeah. So, it’s good to be modest. I can see we’re in the same boat. Like, I don’t think I’m really good looking. My brother says I’m a lot better looking. I don’t know if I am or not, but I just take what he says because I assume he’s a smart person. So, growing up in Australia—how long were you in Australia for? You went to school there and all that kind of fun stuff. So, you were there for how many years?

Yeah, when I was there, they put— and it kind of disgusted me— they put, like, a Starbucks. They’re like, “Hey, we got a Starbucks!” They were super excited about it. I’m like, “Oh, that’s not why I came here.”

Run there. But I’m like, not me. I’m like, I’m good.

Yeah, gotcha. So we’ll go into that too. So tell me about your kids. How old your kids right now?

Seven and eight and you got a dog? Rumor has you got a dog?

See, I’m gonna have to fire my research team because they should have known.

Now, and this is gonna be weird. Is your social security number; Now, I’m gonna say it out loud, but we can block this out. I know your pin number too. So it’s not, I mean, we’re not gonna tell everybody. It’s like, and the cool part is, I only have like, two people that listen to my podcast.

Yeah, one of them will probably be your wife. At this point. It’s like, maybe we’ll have three people so really, and she already probably knows your social so you’re going to be safe.

Yeah, yeah. She’s like, “Listen, here’s the deal. We need some leverage with this.” I’m like, “Okay, I don’t know what that means, but sounds good.” So, cool. So, okay, you went to Cosimo, you said, at age 30?

Yeah, we were touching on that a little earlier. Man, I’m thoroughly impressed with Singapore. I’ll probably touch on that a little later in the podcast, but, yeah, how about a crazy city in a good way? Man, I was just amazed at how clean it is and everything about it. I didn’t see one piece of trash on the ground. It was just crazy. It’s like crazy nuts. So here’s my funny Singapore story—I’ll tell you now. I was leaving Singapore, and I was at the airport. I had just had some food, you know, and I was getting on a plane. It’s kind of close quarters, and I thought, I really need some gum. So, I went into this Cadbury store. It’s not little, it’s huge, you know? They have like 5,000 stores at their airport, which is, like, the number one airport in the world or something. You can get a lot of stuff, like a pool and everything you need at the airport before you go on a flight. So, I went to this Cadbury store and asked, “Do you guys have any gum?” The guy kind of did a double take and looked at me like I had asked him for heroin or something. Like, “Hey, you got any heroin, a little bit for the day?” He goes, “Gum?” I said, “Yeah.” He goes, “Oh, we don’t sell gum here.” Like, I was an agent or something. I was like, “Oh, you got the gum, brother?” And he said, “What do you mean?” I said, “What do you mean by that?” He said, “We don’t allow gum.” I didn’t know that it was pretty much illegal, right? I don’t think you can have gum.

No, and I didn’t know that either. When I asked the guy, he kind of looked at me like, I guess he thought I was Singaporean because I obviously fit right in, yeah, the red beard. They’re like, “Are you local?” I’m like, “Yes.” “You need gum?” I’m like, “I’ve got the hookup.” I’m just saying, if you needed some chewing gum, I could totally hook you up right now. So, cool. Okay, so we’re going to talk a little bit about Singapore later because I’m kind of in love with Singapore. I mean, you’ll see my Instagram. My last six pictures have been like, “Dear Singapore, I love you and miss you, and I’m going to come back.” Anyway, I’ve got some good stuff happening there. Next time you and I are going to have coffee or a beer or maybe do some chewing gum together or something like that—just go all in and do crazy stuff. Keep that. I know, download the whole company. Yeah. Well, the unfortunate part is that when somebody listens to this, they can come get you in Singapore. I’m in California, so I’m safe until I come back. So, anyway, when I come back, we’ll figure that out. I’ll put money on your books. Don’t worry, it’ll be fine. Thank you. So, did you go to college in Australia, or anything, or did you just come out brilliant? We already kind of touched on this a little bit.

So, it’s funny. My brother graduated from UTS. Oh, really? Yeah, he went there, and that’s why we went out to visit him when he graduated. He graduated in film. He’s in San Francisco doing film and works for a few different companies. But, yeah, that was interesting. When you mentioned UTS, I didn’t know if that was going to come up in the conversation, but with Sydney, my brother’s there at the moment. Oh, is he really? Oh, that’s awesome! Yeah, my dad and I went to visit him. We were there for a while, I don’t know how many weeks, but we just rented a car and went up the Gold Coast. We had such a great time. I can’t even tell you how much fun we had. Yeah, it was awesome. So, college wasn’t really your thing. And, you know, it’s funny—when I think about it, 20 or 30 years ago, people would say, “Oh, you didn’t go to college?” Now, it’s like, I went to college, got my degree, and that’s super awesome. But how much money has the degree earned me? Point zero, one percent, if that, right? Yeah, I’m not saying, you know, kids listening to this, or my son, who’s in college right now, should stop. Keep going to college, son. But, for the most part, it doesn’t matter. Especially with online education, you can learn online. That’s where I’ve learned my stuff, I’m sure where you’ve learned yours. There’s just so much information out there, and it doesn’t have to come from college. In the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years, you won’t need to go to Stanford. You’ll be able to take their curriculum online. They’re working on that right now.

Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I mean, once again, I firmly believe in that. To me, I’ve thought about going back and getting my master’s, but it’s literally just to get my master’s. It has nothing to do with furthering my career. I teach at UCLA, so I’m one of the only instructors without my master’s or doctorate, which is crazy. They came to me and said, “Hey, you have expertise. We’re looking for someone who’s a practitioner.” So, that was a weird situation where I was like, “Wow.” I was going to go get my master’s at a local college in Sacramento. They said, “We’re looking for someone like you, but you have to have your master’s.” I thought, okay, they have a teacher who’s 65 years old, no offense to 65-year-olds, but he’s teaching this marketing class and they told me, “He really doesn’t know what he’s teaching.” He’s like, “This Instagram thing? Just be very careful with the pictures that you post.” It’s just crazy. So, these are the people teaching the youth. They just haven’t done it. They don’t really know anything about it. They’ve read some stuff and they’re kind of getting it, but not really sure. They wanted me to come in, but they said, “You have to have your master’s.” And I’m like, “But why does my master’s matter?” This was another college, not UCLA, and they didn’t really have an answer other than, “That’s how it’s always been.” So, I’m like, “Yeah, but you’re looking for someone who has done it, right? That’s what you’re looking for, and that’s what you want.” Anyway, it’s just…

Yeah, and I think that’s what it comes down to. It’s just interesting. I think it’s a lot of that old-school thinking, like, “Hey, you have to have a degree to get there.” I get it, a degree says you set a goal and did it, but, yeah, how much does it really mean? I graduated in 2003. I waited 10 years to graduate. I went to school with Jesus. I don’t know if you know who Jesus is—literally, yeah, he has a Bible and some other stuff. But, no, I feel like an old dude when I explain that. When I was going through school, I graduated high school in ‘93, so let’s do the math on that. The internet wasn’t even the internet yet. When I went to school, the internet was, like, there, but it wasn’t the same. The school I went to had one entrepreneurship class, just one. That was it. It was all about, “Hey, go to school, train yourself, then go work for a company.” For me, I was like, “I don’t know if that’s for me.” It just wasn’t my calling.

Yeah, find it and shoot it over. I’d love to listen to it, or at least, I say read it, but I’ve seriously bought like 50 books, and for me, I’m all about Audible. If I try to read a book, ADHD kicks in. I start thinking about what I should do tomorrow, what I should wear, what I need to do here, and then I’m just drooling on my book that I shouldn’t even have bought. My wife laughs. She says, “These books back here are all fake.” I haven’t read a single one of them. They’re empty for sure. The sad part is, I actually do buy the books because I assume that through Audible, I’ll highlight them. This is my perfect world where I have all kinds of time, but it just never happens that way. And my wife’s like, “Why do you keep buying these books?” I’m like, “Because I’m going to read them.”

Yeah, exactly, yeah. And she’s like, keep spending that money. You’re doing a great job. Those books are getting highly used. So cool. Okay, so you didn’t go to college, but you were hiring people in college. Like, how did you jump into, like, the SEO thing and the content game, like, I want to hear that backstory there, because I’m intrigued.

Super love weird. She knows me. She said, “Make it weird.” She knows what I like, I get it. That’s awesome. So, is it true that when you guys made that 40 cents, that was the night you conceived your first child? Was that how excited you guys were? Was it over 40 cents?

Got it? That’s all you had to say. I was very, very excited. I just want to make sure your stories are matching up with your wife, told me. So I just, I don’t want to make this weird. I just want to make sure that we’re good.

That’s awesome. Okay, good deal. I’m not here to question your timelines. I believe you. So, we have a lot of parallels. What’s interesting is that I like to travel, but the only thing I haven’t done is gone places for like six months or a year. I think you’ve taken that next level of commitment. I’ve done a good amount of traveling, and I was really blessed because my dad, early on, would take me to Costa Rica. I went to school in Costa Rica, and I’ve had that experience. I’ve always enjoyed the travels, the fun, learning about cultures, the food, just everything about it. So, when was there a time when you guys pretty much sold everything? I mean, there was a point when you said, “Hey, this is what we’re doing.” Was that when you were back in Sydney and then decided, “Hey, let’s…”

Yeah, I mean, the traveling side of things—when it comes to traveling, there are always ups and downs, I guess that’s what I’m saying. You know, when it comes to the internet and stuff like that, it can be somewhat of a challenge sometimes in different countries. Obviously, not in Singapore—Singapore is like, you know, they’re pretty much 5G. Not really, but I mean, they are, right? It’s like next level when it comes to tech. But, I mean, how did you guys get through that? Because, I mean, when you’re traveling, it’s, you know, I did a keynote in Sri Lanka once. I went for a week to do this whole travel thing, and it was awesome. But the internet was… well, it’s sometimes a blessing, right? I mean, unless I have projects I need to get done. But how did you guys work through that?

You guys aren’t doing, like, I know some of the guys I’ve traveled with, you know, they do a lot of video stuff and all that. I mean, that’s when you run into issues, right? When you’re trying to send, you know, one gig or whatever it is, then there can be some issues. But sending emails and stuff doesn’t take too much bandwidth, not exactly. So, how big is your team? You guys have, what is it, louder.online?

That’s awesome. So obviously, everybody’s a remote team.

That’s awesome. Yeah, we have a lot of parallels because my team is all remote as well. I’m here in Sacramento, California, and my team is all over. There’s a lot of trial and error, obviously, trying to get it going, figuring out what software to use, and all that. But once you get a good cadence in place, it’s great. I love the fact that it can be 5 o’clock in California, I talk with a client, and by the morning, I have it done. And they’re like, “How did you get that done?” They don’t understand. I’m like, “I run a 24-hour clock,” and they’re like, “But that’s illegal.” I go, “No, it’s not. When you have time zones, yeah.” And I’m like, “That’s the whole point of this! I have this continuous clock that can keep going.” What software do you guys use? Is it like Slack, Trello, or something else?

Yeah, we’ve kind of found the same thing. We’ve tried Basecamp, Asana, and I mean, if I had $1 for every software, I could just retire. It’s hard to get the whole team to move to a new tool and use it the right way. For us, Trello has been good. We use Slack, obviously, and Google Drive or Dropbox. Slack has really helped us with our emails, cutting down the amount of emails we receive because it’s always hard when you’re CCing people. It’s helped with project management and stuff like that. That’s interesting. It’s cool that you’ve got that. My team is about 33 right now. Like I said, it’s been awesome. Outsourcing has been fun because it takes a while, but once you get people trained up, the remote thing is a benefit. Once you find the right people, obviously. Now we have certain ways we interview people and ask them questions to figure out, like, “Are you looking to work half time and make all this money, or are you really going to work hard?” And we have checks and balances for that. Yeah, exactly. I don’t like to micromanage people, so for me, I’m like, “Listen, I’m not checking in on this and that.” I’ll have certain checks and balances, and if I start to get a feeling, you know, my spider sense starts to tingle, I’ll think, “Okay, I think you might not be doing some stuff.” Then you’ll probably get a call from me. But other than that, just do your stuff, get it done on time, and life’s good.

The reason why I’m laughing when you were saying that is because it’s so spot on. I don’t know how many times, and once again, it’s very much a cultural thing, and that was the hardest thing for me. I’m like, “How is it that I told you what I needed? You said, ‘Yes, we can absolutely do that,’ and then you just disappear?” I’m so confused. Why wouldn’t you just say, “Hey, that’s not within my wheelhouse, but I have someone else I can recommend”? I’d literally hire people, wait for two weeks, and then say, “Hey, what’s going on?” and they’d be a ghost.

Yeah, and it’s like, it’s funny. I was laughing because I’ve literally been through that a thousand times. Now, you realize it’s a cultural thing. It’s something you have to learn. I tell people, “Hey, listen, at the end of the day, if you’re not a good fit, just tell me. I have no problems with that.” I’d rather know that upfront than give you the task, and then find out 13 days in that it’s not going to get done. When I’m supposed to get it done in two weeks and I’m chasing you down, like, “Hey, John, where you at? John, where you at?” and then John just never shows up, right? That’s a problem. Anyway, I was just laughing as we went through a lot of this.

Well, and that’s, once again, what you’re talking about. That was the crazy part about it. I used to, in another life, have a company with 130 employees in my office, and it was crazy. Any of my old staff members listening, I love you guys, but it was crazy. It was literally like putting out fires all the time. You deal with emotions, people coming in saying, “Oh, my husband’s cheating on me,” and I’d be like, “Oh, come sit down for two hours and let’s talk about it.” And shout out to all the husbands that left their wives, and wives, sorry if I’m not being insensitive, but I mean, that’s just what you deal with, right? Not remotely the same, but you still deal with different things. After that company, I told myself, “I’ll never have that many staff members in one place again,” not that I didn’t appreciate them. It’s just I didn’t have the freedom I have now. With software and putting people in places where they can manage things, it’s a different deal now. It’s a lot more freeing.

Yeah, that’s the hard part. Because, you know, you want to go back to… it’s kind of like I was just talking to somebody—oh, it was one of my best friends. He’s a fireman in Southern California, and his son was like… we were having a call, literally right before you and I jumped on, and he said, “I lost my lego.” And that was a big thing for him. And I go, “God, I can’t…” I remember being a kid when losing a Lego in a day was, like, the thing you really stressed about. “God, I lost a Lego, Dad!” And then you find the Lego and go, “Oh, God, I found the Lego.” That was the only thing I had to worry about.

Santa Rosa is going to be kind of near San Francisco, in that area. It’s about an hour, hour and a half from me. Santa Rosa is great, like Sebastopol, and there are some really great cities in that area.

Yeah, really didn’t find that one. I’m definitely gonna fire my my research person. Sorry if you’re listening to this. Actually, if you’re my research person, you’ve already been fired, and that’s probably why you are listening. Just kidding. You’re gonna keep your job. So interesting is, you were fireman? How long were you a fireman for?

So, my question is this: if you’re making money and your company is going well, why did you decide to become a fireman? What was the reason behind that?

Yeah, I love it. There are 24,000 people going for the job, and for you, you’re like, “I just wanted to see if I could do the test.” The guy listening to that who didn’t get the job is probably thinking, “I hate that guy.” You know, he’s like, “I didn’t really want the job, they just called me, and I was like, ‘Well, I’ll show up on Tuesday and see if we can work this out.’” Meanwhile, that guy has probably been killing himself over it because he didn’t get the job, and you’re like, “Oh, just another Tuesday, yeah, another job, Fire Department.”

Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, I doubt it. Seems like you’re doing good. So, what’s it like having 50 employees? What’s the perfect client for you? Where do you guys spend most of your time? If we said, “Hey, this is where you guys specialize,” what is that?

So, how do you guys do it? Do you have a sales team and all that kind of stuff? How do you get leads? I mean, I know you’ve got your secret sauce, but what’s your approach? Do clients reach out to you, or is it all inbound? Do you guys make calls, or what’s your strategy?

Yeah, you’re like my brother from another mother. I think we might be related or something. I’ll figure that out later because we look identical—twinsies, for sure. It’s funny. So, we’re kind of in the same boat. Ours is all inbound from the writing stuff that I’ve done, so it’s kind of crazy. I don’t really, and I always say this, and it’s not something I’m bragging about, but I don’t have a sales team. My sales team is literally inbound leads that I get. Actually, scratch that—we just hired a sales guy, I think, like a week ago. But before that, it’s always been me, and it’s always been inbound. So, we don’t do anything other than that. It’s more about the thought leadership stuff. People see us somewhere and say, “Hey.” By that point, they’ve already read some of your stuff, and they’re kind of excited about the next steps. As long as they have a budget and some things in place, then life’s good.

Yeah, I like that. So what about from an SEO perspective, or, I guess, from any perspective, but like, what are like three softwares that you guys use? What are like the three softwares that you rely on?

So Tim, are they? And they’re there in Singapore. I didn’t know that.

I didn’t see anybody when I was there. I feel lonely now like, man, everybody was there, and I could have went out and had coffee or beers, and…

No, I know what you would do. You and I were kind of going back and forth, and I was like, “Wait a second, you,” and then we just never ended up connecting. But I was like, “Man, that would have been awesome.” I’ll be out there again soon. Hopefully, I’ll head out there in another month or two. Good, good. So, cool. Career-wise, what do you think one of your biggest achievements is? I mean, I know you were like a secret fireman and beat out 3,000, 7,000, or whatever it was. But career-wise, what would you say is your biggest achievement? I know you’ve written some books, which I want to touch on after this, but what would you say is your biggest achievement?

Yeah, and your co-founder is your wife. Remember, there’s a right answer and a wrong answer. Is your wife smarter than you? Absolutely, yeah, in every way. She said the same thing when I talked to her—she said she was absolutely smarter. I nailed that one. I was nervous because I thought, “Okay, if I say this, I hope he doesn’t mess this up because this is being recorded and we know she can listen to it.” Okay, we’re good. We’re good. I gotta be honest, I had to hold my breath for a second because I thought, “Oh, Jesus, if I say the wrong thing, this is just going to get weird. Super weird.” Okay, good. So, obviously, you’ve written two books, right? One is The Complete Guide to Building Your Personal Brand and the other is Building Your Blog Audience. You did one of them with Neil Patel, or was it both?

So, I was supposed to co-write a book with a friend of mine, Amanda, but we kind of decided not to do it. Long story short, when we were putting together a contract for it—and I’m only bringing this up because of your wife—one of the big things, and I didn’t know this, was my attorney asking, “So, whose name’s going to be first?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I didn’t realize that was a factor.” I had written a book, and because my attorney had a lot of experience with this kind of stuff, I’m like, “I guess mine, but I don’t know.” She says, “Well, that’s something you really need to figure out. That’s a big deal.” Not with Amanda, who I was going to write the book with, but for my attorney, it was like, “You need to be ready for that call.” And I’m like, “I didn’t know.” I was just like, “I don’t know.” And then I was like, “Do I want to be second?” But I’m like, “Who’s going to write most of it?” It really wasn’t a big deal to me, but later on I was like, “Wow, this is a big deal.” My attorney got me all pumped up. I thought, “Sure, I gotta be ready. I gotta explain to them why I need to be in first place on this thing.” So, I’m not asking who’s going to be first, we’ll see when the book comes out.

So your wife said, “No, I’m just kidding.” Um, I don’t know what your wife said—I didn’t ask about that, but that’s interesting. Once again, for me, that wasn’t a factor, but I thought it was interesting when I heard that. It was never something I thought about until I started to think about it. And I was like, “You know, if it was my wife, I’d do the same thing.” But that was a good answer with, “I put my wife first, because it’s ladies first.” So that was a gentleman and a scholar. Interesting. So, cool. From an SEO perspective, what would be your one piece of advice? There are always these articles like, “SEO is dead” or this or that, which we know is all BS. But from an SEO perspective, what would be your one piece of advice? Like, if you were to tell any company, “This is how you should do it,” I guess not really “take care of your SEO,” but what’s the one thing that you think people overlook when it comes to SEO? What’s the one thing they could take away and say, “Oh, we’re not doing that. We need to do more of that.”

Yeah, well, and it’s funny. I’ve seen some companies that, once again, when anybody comes to me and says, “Oh, we’re already doing it. We’re writing 300-word blog articles,” I go, “Boy, you guys are saying a lot in those 300 words.” I’m assuming there’s a reason why you reached out to me. I think it’s because your blog content’s epic.

Cool. Oh, you just, I don’t know if you felt…

Man, you gotta be careful when you’re drinking in the morning. But I’m not here to judge. I’m just saying, whatever works for you. If you want to work remotely because you drink in the morning, that’s cool. Just letting everyone know, because, obviously, this is an audio, not a video. We have a video going, and the video fell, and I thought Aaron fell down or something. I thought maybe his wife would attack him for something he said, but I thought everything he said was good. So I think he’s solid there. I think he’ll be good for another few years at least. But, yeah, why did you guys end up in Singapore? How did that jump onto your guys’ map?

And the literacy rate is what like 97 or 98% its something crazy.

Yeah, I’m sold on Singapore. Man, I’d say I’d go. If somebody wanted to pay for me to get a Singaporean tattoo, I’d probably do it. I’m not saying it’s recommended, but I would probably do it. So, out of all the places, I think you already kind of touched on this—one of your favorite places has been Thailand. Is that where it made the biggest impression on you, up until Singapore? And where are you at today?

Gotcha. So you hate rules.

Oh, a bit of a rule breaker. Okay, I get it. No, that’s good. It feels freeing to tell everybody you’re a rule breaker. I’m sure I’ve always heard about “bad boy Aaron.” I didn’t know what they meant, but that was a thing going around the underground marketing world. I always heard it and was like, “I don’t know what that means, but I’m going to ask him on the podcast.” So now we know—that’s me, apparently, because the rumors must be true. I don’t know. So, let’s do this. This is going to be my last question for the podcast. If you had $1 million, if I came and brought you $1 million cash—just stone-cold cash, no taxes or anything, this is just a secret gift from me to you because obviously, I care—how would that… Yeah, you’re like, “Let me give you my address in case.” Or if you just want to bring it out yourself, that’s fine.

I will absolutely bring gum. We’ll just go nothing but a party. So, what would you do? Would that change your life? I don’t see you as someone who’s basing your whole life off of money, right? I think it’s like, “Hey, I have money, and that’s fine.” It’s not a… like, you’re a very driven person. But would that change your life? Would you change things up if you had a million dollars? Would you shut the company down? How would that change things?

Well, and then you wouldn’t have to be a male dancer on the weekends.

Well, the first time I saw you dance, I remember thinking, “Wait a second, this is illegal.” So, anyway, I don’t know why I’d be watching you dance. When I said that out loud, I was like, “Damn, this is being recorded. Can’t take that back now.” We just can’t take that back. That’s live, that’s public, and, Jesus, this is the difficult part. It’s like, half the time when we have these types of conversations, I have guests who’ll say, “Listen, I’ll give you cash if you just give me that recording. If we could just not go live with your recording…” Most people don’t know that I’m a smart ass, so when they jump on, they think, “Oh, we’re going to talk about content. This is really great.” By the end of it, they’re like, “Man, I don’t even know if what we said is legal.” And, you know, it works perfectly for me.

Yeah, that’s me too. I’m like, Hey, we’re not having fun and saying awkward stuff, so we can’t catch eye contact next time. Then it’s not is it.

I was sitting in the lower seat, so yes, I’ll be honest with you, it wasn’t eye contact I was going for. But now this is super awkward, and now everybody’s questioning my sexuality on my own podcast. I thought he was married, didn’t he have a kid in college? I’m so confused. It’s just the Singapore thing, I don’t know. Well, awesome, man. Hey, you were a great guest, bud. Nothing but a good time. We’ve got to keep in contact. I’ve had you on the blog a few times, and we’ve got to talk about next steps, man. I’m excited. All the stuff you were talking about is like a flashback from memory lane—the hustle, getting it up and going, working remotely, working internationally, all that kind of stuff. It’s funny that we took a lot of the same path. It’s just interesting.

Yeah, and don’t forget to go. Please, small notes, small notes and gum. I’ll bring, I mean, I’ll probably bring more gum than money. But the point is, I’m coming out.

Yeah, trust me, man, I can’t wait to be the guy from the whole I’ll probably go to prison. But cool brother, man. Hey, once again, thanks for being on the podcast, and we’ll talk here soon.

Thanks, man. All right. Bye.