Yeah, so I’ve seen the industry from my experience. I don’t know what it’s been like for you, but I’ve seen the ROI decrease significantly with high and top-level influencers—like the big tech reviewers. As a result, I’ve seen even spending $40,000—one of my clients really wanted to work with this influencer—they spent $40,000 on the video, and it delivered zero sales. They were not happy. So what happened was, since then they’ve been working with a high volume of mid-sized and smaller influencers, putting less reliance on the larger YouTube influencers.
Is it Worth Investing in PR & Influencer Marketing With Francis Bea
with Shane Barker
Shane Barker chats with Francis Bea, founder of Eleven International, about whether investing in PR and influencer marketing is worth it. Francis explains the challenges of securing tangible ROI through traditional PR and shares why diversifying influencer campaigns can yield better results. This episode breaks down complex digital communication strategies, offering actionable insights for brands looking to build credibility and engage audiences more effectively.
Today's guest...
Francis Bea
Francis Bea is an independent marketing strategist known for developing data-driven, consumer-focused strategies that elevate brand visibility. With a background in content marketing, influencer outreach, and editorial direction, Francis helps companies craft compelling narratives that resonate with diverse audiences. His approach emphasizes measurable impact, using both quantitative insights and creative storytelling to drive business objectives.
Throughout his career, Francis has collaborated with startups and established organizations alike, guiding them through branding and product launches with a keen eye on emerging digital trends. He has a track record of successfully integrating cutting-edge marketing techniques with timeless principles of clear communication and audience engagement. By aligning influencer initiatives and social media campaigns, he accelerates brand growth and customer loyalty.
Beyond his consulting work, Francis is an advocate for transparent marketing practices and frequently shares his expertise through speaking engagements. He remains dedicated to delivering innovative solutions that help companies stand out in competitive landscapes.
Episode Show Notes
In this episode of The Marketing Growth Podcast, host Shane Barker welcomes Francis Bea, founder and managing director of Eleven International, to discuss the true value of investing in PR and influencer marketing. Francis candidly explains that while PR is essential for building trust and credibility, its results aren’t always guaranteed—especially when compared across different markets like the US and China. He highlights that many companies often view PR as a bottom-of-the-funnel activity, focused solely on immediate ROI, rather than as a strategic tool for long-term brand building.
Francis also delves into influencer marketing, sharing his observations on how high-profile influencers are not always the most effective choice. He advises that brands should diversify their campaigns by partnering with a range of mid-tier influencers to drive better engagement and measurable results. According to Francis, a well-rounded approach—one that balances traditional PR with a smart, diversified influencer strategy—is critical for success in today’s digital landscape. He emphasizes that understanding cultural nuances and managing expectations are key factors in executing effective digital communication strategies. Tune in for actionable insights on how to optimize your marketing spend and elevate your brand in a crowded marketplace.
Books mentioned
None
Brands mentioned
- 11 International
Welcome to the Marketing Growth Podcast. I’m your host, Shane Barker. In the last two episodes, I’ve been talking with Francis Bea, the founder and managing director of Eleven International, about cross-cultural marketing and his agency’s approach to work. We’ve discussed that in previous episodes. Today we’ll talk about how effective PR and influencer marketing really are to grow your business.
We talk about how important public relations are when it comes to digital communication, because you were a journalist in the past and you’ve done a lot of work in PR—you’ve seen both sides of it. How important is it when it comes to PR? I mean, is that the major piece when it comes to digital communication?
Francis Bea
To be honest, I’m always straightforward with my clients: PR is something you need, but not everybody is prepared for. That’s the best way to put it, because you’re spending money on something that doesn’t guarantee results, at least when it comes to the US press. It’s really hard to get results with PR, even though it’s top of funnel. Technically speaking, if you look at the marketing or sales funnel, they treat it as bottom-of-the-funnel activity. Obviously, there are strategies to implement bottom-of-the-funnel results to drive direct sales, but it doesn’t apply the way it would in China compared to the US. It builds a brand. People need to build trust and credibility with third-party, objective sources of information to be sold on a company.
For example, the company I mentioned that was launching the battery charger—frankly, their product is everywhere locally, but the problem is that nobody actually knows who it’s from. They just think of it as a cheap accessories hardware brand, even though there’s actually a brand behind it. They haven’t been willing to communicate that because of apprehension about ROI, which I’m sure you would hear from US clients as well. We’ve worked with some in Silicon Valley.
A lot of these companies based in China think of everything almost as a bottom-of-the-funnel activity, asking, “What’s my direct ROI? If I spend $1 on PR, what does that get me?” There are ways to address that, but it’s not the most effective mindset. These companies often think, “I have the best product in the world, and people will want to talk about it,” but that’s not always the case. That’s technically where we should come in. If you’re coming from that mindset, you need some education—whether it’s in conversations with us or after making mistakes with another agency, something needs to change.
That’s also why we tend to be a bit more selective with the companies we work with. For example, a lot of companies in Beijing are very open-minded and more mature in terms of branding, marketing, and understanding the importance of PR, whereas companies in Shenzhen—many of them factories—are trying to build their own brand but are primarily focused on direct ROI. For these companies, online advertising through media buying on platforms like Facebook or Google is the best approach initially, and eventually they’ll come to realize why branding is important. Some companies are more equipped for that, and we’ve worked with some in Shenzhen that have a more open mind and understanding. But there are a lot of companies out there that think very differently, so we have to be cautious.
So, you know, we do influencer marketing stuff, and I think that’s always the question with influencer marketing. It’s like, “I’m going to spend 10 grand a month, or whatever the number is, and then what’s my ROI?” ROI is always the big question. I know you work with a lot of companies when it comes to influencer marketing or KOL initiatives. What advice would you give to companies that are looking to do influencer marketing or KOL initiatives? What would be your advice for them?
Francis Bea
One person, one campaign, one thing, I’m praying that it works.
Francis Bea
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s sort of what we’ve seen, but I don’t know what the experience has been for you.
Very similar.
Francis Bea
Okay, yeah. So I think the value of influencers for those large guys in terms of engagement has definitely dropped quite a bit since things started. And, you know, the larger they get, the higher budget they command. And it just, you know, seems like it never stops increasing.
Yeah, what I think is the issue is that when you’re working with influencers, I don’t ever recommend that you just use one influencer, do one campaign, and put your whole budget into it because it’s like you’re just rolling the dice—and if it doesn’t go well, it’s terrible. Most of the time, influencer marketing—back when people really didn’t know what it was—worked like this: they’re like, “Oh, this is my person. I follow them, I love them, and they’re recommending this. I should go after it.” People are very keen on it, but it needs to be a campaign. It’s not just one post or one thing where you blow your budget on one person. You should diversify. You should spread it over multiple people and see what works with each influencer. So I think, hopefully, brands—if you’re listening, please don’t just, I don’t care who it is, unless you have a lot of money to spend and you just want to throw some money down. Rock on. But if you really want to be educated about it, it’s no different than what I always talk about—no different than PPC or SEO. You’re not just going to go after one thing. You’re going to try multiple funnels and different approaches. Same with influencers. People come to me and say, “I worked with one influencer on Instagram, and influencer marketing doesn’t work.” And I’m like, there are millions of influencers, and that’s not the only platform—there are other platforms. It’s this weird thing where people assume that because you tried it once and it didn’t work—like going after one keyword or doing one ad on Facebook—that it’s a failure. What about the other 10,000 ideas of ads you could be putting up? You just gotta diversify a little bit.
But so, tell us a little bit about the future, man. What are you guys gonna be doing at 11 International? What does the future hold? You guys obviously have some awesome clients when it comes to all the cool stuff—AI, machine learning, and all that. So what does the future hold for you guys?
Francis Bea
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I think a lot of things in China have gone back to normal. That’s the way I see it. It’s an opportunity for us to build our own brand as well, which is, I guess, to some degree why I’m starting this podcast and looking forward to doing other things. We’ve had technology as the bread and butter of the clients we work with, and at the same time, we’re experimenting with lifestyle brands as well. We’ve just done Do Vet, for example. They launched the product on Kickstarter and are backed by a prominent VC. But yeah, we’re looking for opportunities to grow and take a chance—even during these times—to break out and take advantage of the opportunities we have right now.
It’s awesome. I can’t wait to see what you guys do. You guys have already done some awesome stuff, and I do think there’s a lot of opportunity—especially, you know, you can work on your brand a little bit, right? Things slow down, probably a little bit, and now it’s time to get back out there, man, to get back to work.
Francis Bea
Yeah, for some reason, though, building your own brand is hard.
Well, you know, that’s why people need someone like you to come in, right? Because it is hard—if it weren’t, we would all just build our own brand. Even with my brand, I look at what we’ve built and I don’t cringe because I think it’s good, but I also think it could be better. It’s just so hard when you’re in the middle of it, you know? That’s why you have outside agencies that come in and say, “Listen, you’re doing this well, but over here, what you’ve been doing—you really need to switch it up.” Then you go, “Okay, that’s why I’m paying you the big bucks, because I don’t see it while I’m in the middle of it.” That’s why it’s so important.
Francis Bea
Yeah. And I think at the same time for us, we’re recognizing that going back to the cross-border thing, there is an increasing need or desire—especially with everything that’s happening—to work with agencies that are culturally mindful and understand the current situation, and are able to help guide them from a point that can obviously help them build their company. There are a lot of companies that just don’t understand—for instance, certain businesses like lifestyle live streaming. In China, or Asia in general, live streaming has a very different connotation from the extremes you might find in the US. There’s camming live streaming, but then there’s also gaming. In Asia, live streaming is thought of as an e-commerce platform, and at the same time it’s seen as a place where you can chat with young girls who are vlogging, or VJing, or DJing, per se. They’re just having conversations with a lot of their customers. And there’s huge business for this product that wouldn’t necessarily apply to the US or the rest of the world if they’re building a brand, because people may perceive it in a way you didn’t intend. So these are the cultural and cross-border issues that we come in to solve, because people realize that we have a really good understanding of these things—even when we bid for clients, we actually compete with agencies in the US most of the time. So there’s this growing need and trend of working with agencies like ours for these various reasons.
Well, it makes total sense, man. If you’re going to enter a new market in another country, you have to have experience there. Great, you’re big in the US, but another market is a totally different deal. That’s why I was excited about having you on the podcast—it’s important for people to understand that if you’re going international, make sure you know who you’re dealing with, how you’re going to shape your messaging, and how you’re going to present yourself. It’s extremely important because you can go in, spend all kinds of money, mess things up, and say something dumb. There are plenty of examples of that online. You really have to know what you’re doing, and it’s important to talk to someone who can help you understand the process so you don’t go in and do anything dumb.
Francis Bea
Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of US companies that enter China, and a lot of lifestyle brands think, “Oh, I’ll just dump a bunch of money and hire someone with good credentials,” and assume things will work out. But it’s a lot more complicated than that.
Yeah, it’s always a lot more moving pieces. Well, cool man. So we’ve got enough—some good stuff about 11 International. I’m excited about that, excited about the future of you guys. Now I have our fun section of the podcast where we ask you some questions that aren’t too hard, you know? I mean, they’re all stuff that you can answer. I’m kind of excited about this one. This is actually, there was one place—now I’m excited to hear your answer, because you’re obviously well-seasoned when it comes to traveling. What is one place that, if you could go in the world for free—now that COVID is out of the way, right? We’re not worried about anything like that—one place in the world you could go for free? Where would that be? I know you’ve been to a lot of places. Are you like, do I go back to that place? Or do I go to a new place? I know there are a lot of options.
Francis Bea
To be honest, I would want to go back to Beijing right now.
Yeah. Well, why can’t you go back to Beijing? Is it just a travel situation?
Francis Bea
Yeah, due to the travel situation, I think they’re starting to open up the borders again. But even if you have a work visa, right now they’re barring certain people from certain countries. I think they’ve opened it up to Europe, and I believe they just recently opened it up to everybody else. So I’m just keeping an eye out.
Yeah, so maybe soon—maybe you’ll get back soon. So my next question is, if you could have any superpower, what would it be? I mean, I feel like you’d be Superman, so you could fly back to Beijing and not have to worry about anything. But what would be another superpower?
Francis Bea
Let me think. I don’t know; maybe to to read other people’s minds.
That’s what I was thinking. I don’t know why I almost said that. I was saying, because you know what you’d love to do is stay in the middle of two CEOs and read their minds and say, “Don’t say that. Don’t do that. Hold on a second.” Be able to stop them ahead of time—like, “No, no. I know what you’re about to do.” It was like that Mel Gibson movie where he would walk by all the women and hear what they were saying. It’s kind of the same deal—like, “No, no. Hold on. Let’s wait.” Don’t worry, where you can kind of read people’s minds. I love that.
So this is going to be our last question. If you could have dinner, dead or alive, with three people—and again, this is any three people—who are the three people you’d have at your dinner table?
I mean, obviously, other than me—because I know I would be the first person—I’m sure I don’t expect to be at your table with three important people. How about that?
Francis Bea
To be honest, I think it just depends on any given day for me. I haven’t really grown up with any idols per se. I know people analyze Steve Jobs or whatever, but for me, I think of things a bit more practically. For instance, you asked me the question of what’s next for 11 International. I would actually want to talk to the founder of Ogilvy. That would be a really good idea to learn how to build the business because, obviously, there are the normal marketing strategies that you can use, but there’s also stuff tailored for helping agencies grow that I’ve been taking a look at. But, surprisingly for PR agencies, no one wants to talk about PR agencies, right? There’s actually a lot of resources for building startups, but that seems to be missing.
That’s too funny. Well, maybe, maybe you’ll be that guy. Maybe you’ll be that guy that will talk about the PR side of things. Who knows, right?
Francis Bea
I could be more practical, I think. It kind of depends. If there are things I’m struggling with and I recognize that there are people who can help me with that, those are definitely the people I would want at that time.
Yeah, yeah. Take advantage of that one- or two-hour dinner and learn some stuff right now. That makes sense. That makes total sense. Yeah. So Francis B, man, this was awesome. This really was, man—we have Eleven International, your company. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. And if anybody wants to get in contact with you, how can they get in contact with you?
Francis Bea
They can reach out to our website, which is actually the two numbers—one, one—and then dot international. There’s no dot com. A lot of people get mixed up with this, but it’s actually one one, which is 11.international.
I thought it was creative. I did when I saw that. That’s awesome because I know most people think of .com when I say, “This guy’s creative, dude, 11.international.” I like that.
Francis Bea
Yeah, no. People get confused, though. That’s kind of the caveat. People are like, “Wait, 11.international.com?” And I’m like, “No, actually, it’s just 11 International.”
We’re the future. No more .com, folks—we’re using different domain names. Awesome. And people, what’s, what about your email address? Anything fun like that, or what about any social stuff?
Francis Bea
Yeah, I mean, my email is francis@11.international.
Awesome. Well, you guys, if you like what you hear, make sure you’re subscribing to the podcast. Francis, once again, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Before I sign off, I want to remind you guys that you can get in touch with my team at shanebarker.com if you want to leverage content marketing, SEO, influencer marketing, or social media marketing to grow your business. I’ll be back with another interesting conversation soon. Stay tuned to the Marketing Growth Podcast.
00:09
Francis Bea's Take on Storytelling
05:29
Customizing Journalist Pitches
09:11
The Timing Factor in PR
12:30
Overcoming Common PR Obstacles
15:50
Insights from Successful Campaigns
19:10
Emerging Trends in PR
22:30
Advice for New Entrepreneurs
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