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Key Takeaways:

[2:12] Aaron Talks About His Family

[5:27] Shane’s Singapore Story

[12:20] The Internet and Modern Education

[14:25] Aaron’s Entry Into SEO and Content Marketing

[21:20] Internet Access While Traveling

[22:30] Aaron Talks About Louder.Online

[24:15] Remote Team Management

[30:39] Aaron’s Firefighting Past

[33:00] Louder.Online’s Specialization

[36:18] Useful Software

[38:46] Aaron Talks About His Books

[41:29] Advice on SEO

[43:20] Why Did Aaron Move to Singapore?

[46:33] What Would Aaron Do With $1 Million?

SEO and content marketing are both great methods for marketing your brand. While they are thought to be two very different forms of marketing, they are interlinked far more than we think. In fact, SEO changes are the most important issue for 61% of B2B content marketers.

Content Marketing Issues

Image via Content Marketing Institute

Using them together can help you achieve your business goals. To help you out, I’ve got Aaron Agius with me. He’s a serial entrepreneur and digital marketer and serves as the CEO of Louder.Online. In addition, he’s a member of the Forbes Agency Council and has authored two books with Neil Patel.

Before we get to how SEO and content marketing can help you, let’s look at some of the differences between them:

SEO and Content Marketing – The Differences

SEO and content marketing have more in common than their differences. However, there are some fundamental differences between the two.

SEO is more on the technical side and has a narrower scope than content. You need to follow certain best practices to get your SEO strategy right. Content marketing, on the other hand, is broader than SEO and is more on the holistic side than the technical.

Now that you know how they differ, let’s look at how you can use them to your advantage.

Using SEO & Content Marketing Together

1. Keywords

Keywords are critical for SEO, and you need to find and use relevant keywords in your content so that you can rank higher in the Search Engine Results Pages (SERPs). They should be used appropriately by following a strategic approach.

You can use the Google Keyword Planner and KWFinder to find relevant keywords. Stuffing a page with keywords can lead to over-optimization which might be penalized by the search engines.

You also need to use your keywords in your title sections and URLs along with the body of your blog posts. Finding keywords and determining how many times your content should feature them is a part of SEO. However, inserting keywords naturally in your content is content marketing all the way. This way, the mix of both can help you utilize keywords properly.

2. User Experience

SEO is all about creating a good user experience for search engine users. Websites which provide a great experience to their users are likely to rank higher up in the SERPs.

You may have all of your technical parameters right such as broken links, error codes, etc.

However, if your website isn’t able to provide a quality experience to searchers, it’ll be pushed down in the search results.

Your website needs to have quality content that can provide value to the searchers. This is where content marketing comes in. You can create high-quality content that gives actionable advice and valuable information to visitors.

Doing this increases their time on page, reduces their bounce rate, and increases their chances of becoming repeat visitors. These factors can help improve your website’s SEO.

Additionally, technical SEO focuses on improving the browsing experience of your website visitors. By increasing the page-loading speed, providing a good sitemap, etc., you can improve the user experience. In fact, a 100-millisecond delay in page loading can reduce your conversions by up to 7%.

These technical factors directly relate to content marketing again. You need faster page-loading speed and sitemaps so that the visitors don’t need to wait long to read your content and can find it easily.

3. High-Quality Content

To get the best out of SEO and content marketing, you need to create high-quality content regularly. Fresh, unique content can index quickly and starts ranking higher in the SERPs compared to low-quality, repetitive content.

Your content should target a particular problem that is faced by your target customers, and it should solve it. You should write your content while keeping this target audience in mind. At the same time, you need to incorporate keywords into your content as a part of SEO. This incorporation has to be done such that it doesn’t seem forced and apparent. If it seems forced, the quality of your content will be negatively affected.

Keywords are one of the most important ranking factors through which the relevance of your website will be ascertained. You need to look for high volume low competition long-tail keywords which can get you higher up in the SERPs with relatively less effort.

4. Backlinks

Each backlink that your website gets is a vote for its authenticity and quality of the content it provides to visitors. One of the most common ways of getting backlinks is by writing guest posts on other blogs.

This is where content marketing comes into the picture. You can write high-quality guest posts for high-authority websites and get backlinks to your website through them. Without quality content, it can be difficult to get approval for a guest post on other websites.

At the same time, if you publish killer content, which is useful for your website visitors, people may link back to it. This can earn you natural backlinks without any extra effort. In this manner, content marketing supports SEO. Remember, linkworthy content is the key to get backlinks.

5. Consistency

As mentioned earlier, you need to come up with high-quality content regularly. Google gives preference to fresh content, and this helps it in ranking higher up in the SERPs. Even if your website doesn’t have a high domain authority, you can expect this content to rank quickly in the SERPs.

Good SEO, thus, means that you need to come up with unique content regularly. This, in turn, means that you’re doing content marketing as well to come up with this content. Through consistent posts, you can increase your rankings in the SERPs.

Final Thoughts

SEO and content marketing are different forms of marketing; however, they are two sides of the same coin.

To get your SEO strategy bang-on, you need to have a solid content marketing strategy as well. By consistently coming up with fresh and high-quality content, you can improve your SEO. This can help you earn backlinks and even improve the user experience.

Lastly, keywords are essential to rank higher up in SERPs, and you can use them naturally only through content marketing.

If you need any assistance with SEO or content marketing, you can get in touch with me.

Full Transcript

Shane: Welcome to the podcast. I am Shane Barker, your host of Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness podcast. Today's episode is about SEO and Content Marketing. We’ll discuss how to create great content and optimize it for better search engine rankings. I have with me Aaron Agius, a leading digital marketer and co-founder of louder.online. He’s a pro at intelligent and effective search and content marketing. Listen, as he shares the best SEO advice and talks about the concept of being audience focused and keyword focus in content marketing. You'll learn how to leverage SEO and to make your content perform better. It's totally worth your time. Alright, so tell me a little bit. So, I mean, I can tell from the accent that obviously you're from the United States, right? Just kidding. No. So like, tell me where you grew up, man. Like, give me a little background on Aaron's life.

Aaron: Sure, technically, I am American. I was born in the States but I grew up in Sydney, Australia, since I was one. So pretty much spent my whole life here. That's where the accents from.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: And I decided to, you know, the grass is always greener. Everyone wants to go to Australia. I wanted to get out and go everywhere else. So, I've been living in many places since I started adulting.

Shane: Yeah. So, let me just get this right. So, when you were one year old, you decided you wanted to move to Australia? I mean, that's kind of young, don't you think?

Aaron: I was very mature.

Shane: Very, very independent. What did your mom and dad think? Where they were just like, he's one I mean, what are we going to do?

Aaron: I dragged him with me, I'm very convincing as well. So, I persuaded them and yeah we' all moved.

Shane: And parents probably needed you to kind of be a kind of a parent figure. I'm your one. So, it's like, that's awesome you brought your parents along.

Aaron: Yeah, exactly, contributing to the family.

Shane: Yeah, that's good because they obviously needed, I'm sure you're probably bringing in a lot of money at that time. So okay, so let's not digress here. So okay, so you went to Australia, obviously because it's an awesome place that I've been to by the way.

Aaron: Good, good. It is, I like it.

Shane: Yeah. And then, so your family, big family, mom and dad? I mean, obviously have a mom and dad because I'm you're here so I mean, we don't need to go into heavy detail into that. But like brothers, sisters, what do we got going on?

Aaron: Yeah. Five kids. So, bunch of brothers and sisters. Yeah, big family spread out over many years.

Shane: Got you. And are you obviously might be a little biased, you think you're the most intelligent out of all the kids?

Aaron: It's not that I think I'm most intelligent because everyone else thinks that so, you know, I just run with it.

Shane: Yeah, you like, you know, listen, I trust you guys’ opinion.

Aaron: Yeah, yeah.

Shane: So, it's good. It's good to be modest. I can see we run in that same boat. I don't think I'm really good looking, my brothers say I'm a lot better looking. I don't know. We're not but I just take what he says because that's, you know, I'm assuming he's a smart person. So, growing up in Australia, how long were you in Australia for? So you went to just full school there and all that kind of fun stuff? So, you were there for how many years?

Aaron: Yeah, everything, full adulting. Decided to, I moved countries when I was 30, I think, somewhere around there. I moved from Sydney to Ko Samui in Thailand.

Shane: Yeah. I've been to Ko Samui.

Aaron: So, I was there for three years, which was really good.

Shane: When I was there, they put, they kind of disgusted me. They put like a Starbucks, like, “hey, we got to start with Starbucks.” They're super excited about it. I'm like, Oh, that's kind of like that's not why I came here.

Aaron: Yeah, exactly.

Shane: All Americans run there but I'm like, “Ah not me. Ah, nah, I’m good.”

Aaron: Yeah, I have that's the McDonalds all the chains. There's a lot there now. So yeah, you got to go to the islands off Samui now, Cope and Yang, Cotel and that's how each step you go is like 20 years before on the other island.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: But yeah, I moved there with my wife and two kids when they were tiny.

Shane: Yeah, got ya. So, we'll go into that, too. So, tell me a little about your kids. How old are your kids right now?

Aaron: Seven and eight.

Shane: Seven and eight. You got a dog, rumor has it you got a dog?

Aaron: I’ve got two dogs now. I got new one about a month ago.

Shane: See, I'm going to have to fire my research team because they should have known that.

Aaron: Good research. I’m not aware I put that online, but I'm impressed.

Shane: Now this is going to be weird, is your social security number? Now I'm going to say it out loud that we can block this out.

Aaron: Please do?

Shane: I know your pin number too. So, it's not I mean, we're not going to tell everybody it's like and the cool part is I only have like two people that listen to my podcast.

Aaron: Yeah, exactly one of them like in this episode, so that's fine.

Shane: Yeah, one of them will probably be your wife. So, at this point, it's like maybe we'll have three people and she already probably knows your social. So, you're going to be safe.

Aaron: Now I'm staring to understand where you got all your information from. You mentioned my wife. I'm starting to piecing things together here. Yeah.

Shane: Yeah, yeah. She's like, listen, here's the deal. We need some leverage with him, right. I don't know what that means but sounds good. So cool. So, you okay, so you grew, you went to Ko Samui, you said what at age 30?

Aaron: Yeah, about 30. Did about three years there, as the kids started to need a bit more than what a small island could provide?

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: Moved back to Sydney for another couple of years and then have recently as of about a year and a bit ago, moved to Singapore with the whole family.

Shane: We were touching on that a little earlier, man. I'm thoroughly impressed with Singapore. I'm going to touch on that probably a little later on the podcast. But yeah, I'm in a crazy city like in a good way man. I was just how clean it is and just everything about it. It was I mean, I didn't see one piece of trash on the ground. It was just…

Aaron: Crazy.

Shane: Crazy. It's like crazy nuts like so this is my funny Singapore story and I'll just tell you now. So, I was leaving Singapore and I was at the airport. I was like I just had some food you know, and I was getting on a plane you know, kind of close quarters whatever. Oh my god, I really need some gum. So, I go in and I went into the guys like a little Cadbury not a little, it's like a huge Cadbury you know thing and they like 5000 stores at their airport, which is like number one airport in the world or something. It's like you can get lots of like a pool and all the stuff that you needed airport before I go on a flight. I go and there was just this little Cadbury store and I was like, “hey, you know, do you guys have any gum?” And he kind of like did this double take and looked at me like I had asked him for like some heroin or something like, “hey, you got any heroin?” a little bit in the day or something? And he goes, “gum” and he goes, “Yeah,” he goes, “Oh, we don't sell gum here.” Like I was a Singaporean agent or something. Okay, you got... What do you mean? Do you mean by that? He's like, we don't allow gum and I didn't know that. It was like, I guess permission is legal right? I mean, I guess I don't think you can have gum.

Aaron: I think it's illegal to sell. If you bring it in, it's not illegal to chew it or something but you know, you don't see it anywhere. No one's chewing gum here.

Shane: No and I didn't for me. I didn't know that, you know, but when I asked the guy, he kind of looked at me like, I guess he thought I was a Singaporean because obviously I looked very Singaporean.

Aaron: Yeah, yeah, you would fit right in. Yeah.

Shane: You have the red beard, they're like, “Are your local?” I'm like, “yes. You need gum because I've got the hook up? I’m just saying if you needed some chewing gum, I could totally hook you up right now.” So cool. Okay, so that's okay. So, we're going to talk a little bit about Singapore later because I am like, I'm kind of in love with Singapore. I mean, you see my Instagram, my last six pictures have been like, “dear Singapore, like I love you and miss you. And I'm going to come back.” And anyway, so they’ve got some good stuff happening there. Next time, you and I are going to have coffee or a beer or maybe do some chewing gum together, something like that. Just go in and do crazy stuff.

Aaron: Keep that off, the down low, the whole gum stuff.

Shane: I know. Well the unfortunate part is it when somebody listens to this, they can come get you in Singapore. I’m in California, I'm safe until I come back. So anyways, when I come back, we'll figure that out. I'll put money on your books. It's don't know. It'll be fine.

Aaron: Thank you. Thank you.

Shane: So, did you go to college in Australia or anything or just come out brilliant? We already kind of touched on this a little bit.

Aaron: I tried a few times.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: At 18, I kind of moved out and that's the time were you trying to go to Uni as we call it in Australia.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: And yeah, I just couldn't do it. I was doing a Bachelor of Computer Science and so a big degree and just couldn't get started. I started at Sydney Uni went to New South Wales ETFs. I went to a whole bunch of different Unis to keep trying. Every time I failed, but just couldn't handle the, trying to support myself and doing a big course like that at same time. So eventually, the jobs that I was doing on the side, I ended up hiring people that had completed the degree that I was trying to study for. That was the time….

Shane: Ironic.

Aaron: Like the time where I thought was not needed.

Shane: So, it's funny. So UTS, my brother graduated from UTS.

Aaron: Oh really.

Shane: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he went to and that's why we went out to visit him when he graduated. So, he graduated in Film. So, he's in San Francisco doing Film and works for a few different companies. But yeah, that was interesting when you said UTS.  I didn't know that was going to come up in the conversation but was Sydney but….

Aaron: My brother is there the moment.

Shane: Oh, is he really? That's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. We, my dad and I went to go visit, we were there for, that was a while ago. I don't know how many weeks, but we just went up the Gold Coast. We just rented a car and went up the Gold Coast and just had, I mean, just, I can't even tell you how much fun we had. Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah, good time. So cool. So, college wasn't really your thing. And that's, you know, it's funny when I think you know, 20, 30 years ago, people were like, you know, “Oh, you didn't go to college.” It's like, now it's like, I mean, I went to college, I got my degree and that's super awesome. And you know how much money of they agree I use? A point 01 percent if that right. I'm not saying, kids that are listening to this, or my son who's in college right now. Continue college son, don't be confused. But for the most part, it's like that doesn't you know, especially with online education, you can get online, right? I mean, that's where I've learned my stuff, I'm sure where you've learned your stuff. It's like, there's just so much information out there. And it's like, it's, you know, it doesn't have to come. And I think there's obviously going to be a huge in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years where you want to go to Stanford, you don't have to be at Stanford, right? They're going to have that curriculum. And they're working on that right now.

Aaron: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I said the same thing to my younger brothers that “Yeah, there's loads of reasons to go to college or go to Uni but it's not necessary. You don't need to, unless you want to.” And I'm sure there's like loads of stuff that I missed out on. I'm sure the social scene was amazing. Mind you I had a pretty good social scene in my early 20s, anyway. But yeah, look, I'm sure this stuff I missed out on career wise, I'm happy with the direction I took. And I'm always looking to get to somewhere else as quick as possible. So, thinking that I got to skip those years that I would have spent there, and you know, was hiring the people that had that degree anyway, that made sense to do what I did.

Shane: Yeah. No, that's awesome. That's awesome. I mean, once again, I firmly believe in that it's like to me, I mean, I've thought about going back and getting my Masters. But it's literally just to get my Masters. It has nothing to do won't further my career, right. I mean, I teach at UCLA. So, I'm one of the only instructors, that’s crazy. I'm the only instructors that I don't have my Masters, or I don't have my Doctorate. And it's because it's a long story short, they came to me and said, “Hey, you have expertise, we're looking for something as a practitioner.” And so that was a weird, you know, situation, I was like, “wow.” Because I was going to go get my Masters because at a local college in Sacramento that said, “Hey, we want to we're looking for somebody like you, but you have to have your Masters.” And I thought, okay, so you have  this this teacher is 65 years old, nothing against 65 year old’s by the way, but that is teaching this marketing class, it literally like they told me like, he really doesn't know what he's teaching. He’s like, “This Instagram thing, just be very careful with the pictures that you post.” You know, it's just like, these are the systems teaching the youth. And it's like, they just haven't done, they don't know anything about it, right? They’ve read some stuff, and they read Facebook, and I'm kind of getting it not really sure. And it's like that since they wanted me to come in but they're like, you have to have your Masters. And I'm like, but why does my Masters matter? This was another college not UCLA. And they go, “well…”, and they didn't really have an answer other than that's how it's always been like, you have to have your Masters. And I'm like, “yeah, but you're looking for a Masters and somebody that's done it, right?”

Aaron: Yeah.

Shane: I mean, that's what you're looking for. And that's what you want. So anyways, it's just, you know, one that will all go out.

Aaron: That's amazing. Same thing on LinkedIn, or any other job site that you're going to and people have that as a requirement for any of the jobs and it just put a lot of people off actually applying. And I just ignored that. Like back when I was looking for jobs after you know, when I should have been in college. I just started ignoring and it’s amazing how many people, if you just ignore it and just pull, you can actually cut through the noise? Especially.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: The world experience, like you were saying.

Shane: Yeah, and I think that's what it comes down to, you know, it's, it's just interesting. I think it's a lot of that old school, you know, way of thinking they’re like, hey, you have to have a degree to get that. I mean, I get it that a degree says that you know, you set a goal and you did it. But…

Aaron: Yeah.

Shane: It's like how much you really, man I was. So, I graduated and what was it? Geez, I think 2003 darn. That was and I waited ten years to graduate. I'm like, I went to school with Jesus. I don't know if you know Jesus.

Aaron: Literally.

Shane: I literally yeah. He has a Bible and some other stuff. But no, I mean, I feel like an old old dude when I explained that, but like, when I was going through school when I graduated, I graduate high school 93. So, let's do the math on that. The internet was like not even the internet, right? I mean, when I jumped on the internet, like when I went to school there, the internet was like Windows, the cloud, the school that I went to, there was one entrepreneurship class one. And that was it. Like, there was nothing that was all about, like, hey, go to school, train yourself and then go to work for a company. And for me, I was like, I just don't know if that's for me. You know, like, I don't that's not really my calling.

Aaron: I couldn't agree more actually, as you're saying that. I'm just trying to think there's a book that I read a long time ago that was on a lot of this stuff. I'm trying to think of the name I literally have on the shelf over there. It's a really good, a really good book that would fit in really well guy named Michael, someone and I had to do with education and a new way. Anyway, I'll find I'm sorry. I'll find it afterwards.

Shane: Yeah, find it and shoot it over as I'd love to listen to it or at least I say read it. But I've seriously but like 50 books. And for me, I'm all audible. Like if I go to read a book, ADHD kicks in, and I'm thinking about what should I do tomorrow? What should I wear? And hey, what I want to do here, and then I'm just like, drooling on my book that I shouldn't even about my wife laughs like these books back here. They're all fake. Like, I haven't I haven't read any one of these….

Aaron: Empty shelves.

Shane: Just for show. It's literally like, know, the sad part is I actually do buy the books because I'll buy them and then I assume that through Audible, I'll highlight them. This is in my perfect world of having all kinds of time. And it just it's never happened that way. Never. And my wife said, why do you keep buying these books? I'm like, because I'm going to… anyway.

Aaron: She knows everything makes me look bad.

Shane: Exactly. Yeah and she's like, keep spending that money. You're doing a great job. His books are getting highly used. Highly, highly use. So cool. So how did you okay, so you didn't go to college, but you were hiring people in college? Like, how did you jump into like the SEO thing and the content game? Like how did that I want to hear that backstory there? Because I'm intrigued.

Aaron: Yeah, so my whole employment history was all in it, and doing it jobs, which I was good at, but it was not enjoyable. It was all reactive, you know, fixing people's problems all the time. So, I work for people like Microsoft, and I built big networks, and I did all sorts of stuff for a bunch of years. And then I think I was 28-ish, 29, something like that. My girlfriend and I at the time decided we were going to sort of pack up going on extended trip, which happened to be Thailand again. And so, we were living in Copenhagen, just off coast. And only in Avila, you know, it's really cheap to live really well over there. So, we were doing that for a long period of time. And while we were there, we're just thinking we need to find a way to be able to do this indefinitely, the whole strong currency live on a cheap currency, the whole JO arbitrage play. So, we got to investigating how do we how do we stick this together? And around that time, you know, we started looking online. And people you know, this was early days, people saying they're making money online and everyone thought it was bullshit, right? It was just something that people were saying people scamming each other. But you know, we thought there had to be some sort of truth to what was going on. So, she was in marketing previously working for IBM and not before a lot of the digital stuff was happening. And I was, I was in it. So, we combine our skill sets, did research online figured out people were making money online, like are we going to give it give this a crack. So, we moved back to Sydney, and spent about 14 hours a day at least absolute minimum every day for about four moms’ trying to work out what it all was. And that was like literally just in front of a computer saying, Well, people say they make money on social media on search on this on that. And then Okay, well, which channel we're going to choose. And we chose SEO because we didn't have any money at the time. And it was what we did have was time. So alright we will do the work in earning that, earning those results. So, we did that we went through, okay, well, what are we actually going to rank, and it was about, we don't with them, we have to build websites, we don't we don't build websites. So, it was a lot of stuff sticking all together. Eventually, we fell on affiliate marketing, and just driving traffic to other people's websites. So, at the beginning there, we started driving, ranking sites driving traffic through to hotel on a combination booking website and taking $1 a click or some commission based on the sale and that started working really well. And you know, we one day it was four months and we made 40 cents online. And that amazing a lot we were high five ng and jumping around because it proved that it's real. And you can make money online and what we knew then as the same thing we know now, you know, the internet can be almost infinitely scalable and highly automated in different ways. So that next day we turned 40 cents into $400 just scaling up what we did. And then it continued scaling from there. And we spent the next couple of years doing the same thing traveling around the world doing it from hotels in Rome and Japan and all sorts of stuff where we went outside of hotels and accommodation, we're doing speed dating and flower delivery and all these different industries. And it worked really well. And then we started getting a lot of friends and people saying, well, you can do that for your own sort of web assets. Sure, you can tell me how to do it for my small business, you know, help me get this one ranking and get traffic. And that's where the consulting side sort of kicked in. And that also started helping small business and sort of tried all our way through to medium and eventually enterprise. But that agency and consulting side, this is what really stabilize the peaks and troughs that came with affiliate marketing. Affiliate marketers will tell you.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: As we picked up the right kind of clients, the agency ladder online was born. And yet we're still doing the same thing today 11 years later.

Shane: So that and you said your girlfriend so now it's your wife, correct?

Aaron: She is my wife. Yes.

Shane: It's good that she told me in the thing that the interview that I had with her about what we were going to do to make it weird for you or whatever the goal was, I don't know.

Aaron: I like weird man. I do like weird.

Shane: You so love weird. She knows me. She's making those what I like I get it; I get as awesome as awesome. So now is it true that when you guys made that 40 cents, that was the night that you guys conceived your first child was that how excited you guys where was at 40 cents. That was that pivotal point where….

Aaron: I'm just thinking of the best way of putting this. The excitement happened a lot quicker than being able to conceive.

Shane: Got it. That's all you had to say.

Aaron: I was very, very excited.

Shane: At least you’re honest. I just want to your stories are matching up with your wife told me so I just I don't want to make this weird. I just want to make sure that we're good.

Aaron: It's good. It's just a few year later.

Shane: That’s awesome. Okay, good deal but I'm not here to question your timelines, I believe you. So, we have a lot of parallels. But what's interesting about this is that that I like to travel but the only thing that I haven't done is gone places for like six months or a year. So, I think you've taken that next level of commitment. So, I've done a good amount of traveling and when this when was there was a time when you guys like pretty much sold everything right? I mean, there was like a point where you guys said, hey, this was kind of what we're doing here. And then what was that was that when you guys were back in Sydney and then said, hey, let's

Aaron: That was when we first went that trip that I just explained going to Copenhagen living there. That was the end. And you know, even though we did go back to Sydney to try and figure it all out, it was just part of continuous travels, it wasn't that we literally move back there. That was a very freeing time. And with no kids at the time, that was what enabled the travel to go for longer periods of time and think it was four hours workweek came out in like 2007 or something like that or to the night. I don't know, we read it while we're in the middle of our travels and just thought, oh, wow, that's a lot of stuff that we're already doing. And that that also like, there's some things that we could be doing that align more and so we just continue doing it didn't even know that being a digital nomad was a thing where it wasn't really a thing at the time. And then I realized, well, part of those people that are doing that and still doing it today, so we just kept going to the right places. And we really enjoyed it. I look back fondly on those times.

Shane: Yeah, I mean, the traveling settings. And when it comes to traveling, there's always you know, there's ups and downs with travel, I guess, is what I'm saying, you know, when it comes to internet and stuff like that, I mean, can be somewhat of a challenge sometimes in different countries obviously not in Singapore, like Singapore is like, you know, they're like pretty much %G Not really, but they are right. It's like this next level when it comes to tech stuff. But I mean, how did you guys get through that kind of thing? Because I mean, there's obviously when you're traveling, it's I mean, I did, I'll give you an example. I was in Santa Monica, doing a keynote, I went for a week to do this old travel thing. And it was awesome. But like the internet was, you know, which is sometimes a blessing, right? I mean, you know, unless I have projects and stuff I need to get done. But how did you work through that.

Aaron: So the only time I really experienced big issues was probably Thailand, where we were staying on the island, sometimes the whole island dropped out power wise and so during those times, I usually go out for maybe half a day, at one time, I went out for four days, which was a national emergency.

Shane: Right?

Aaron: During those times, I mean, I got on the phone, and we've always had a team. So, phones still worked, at least at the beginning, we've always had a team to sort of cover some things, you know, while those issues happened but I didn't notice too many big issues. A lot of the stuff we were doing when it was affiliate marketing was a do it through like on an APS on a virtual server somewhere else, I didn't need a lot of bandwidth on my end just to be able to connect in and then run things off that different tools and whatnot. So yeah, we handled it and then a lot of the other times was in hotels and they have fairly decent internet compared to like, some of the private line will good.

Shane: And you guys aren't doing like I know some of the guys that I've traveled with, like, you know, they do a lot of video stuff and all that. I mean, that's when you run into issues, right? When you're trying to send you know, one, whatever one gig across or whatever it is, you know, then there can be some issues but sending emails and stuff. It doesn't take too much bandwidth.

Aaron: Not exactly.

Shane: Yeah. So how big is your guys’ team? So, you guys have what is it louder that’s online right?

Aaron: It is louder thought online. It fluctuates and there's many people in different capacities. But I'd say between 50 and 60 at the moment.

Shane: No gotchas.

Aaron: You guys, full time, part time contractors, a whole lot of different structures and setup fully distributed globally as well.

Shane: That's awesome. So obviously everybody's a remote team.

Aaron: Yeah. And the interesting thing is, you know, that's common nowadays, but we've been around for 11 years and from day one, we wanted to have people in different countries. And we started with India, Philippines, Eastern Europe, we've done it all. And we have people in all those areas at the moment. But it was a real learning curve, you get a lot of people saying they want to outsource or have a remote team, there wasn't a lot of instruction on how to when we were doing it 11 years ago. So, it was a lot of trial and error in figuring that all out. And we stuck to it. And it's done a lot of good for us, it means that we can deliver things overnight. I mean, we've got people working on all time zones, we have the right people in the right countries supporting the right clients, there's a lot of good. And while it used to be harder to convince clients that this is normal, you're going to get the best service and all that sort of stuff. Now people don't really blink an eye what we're doing, and so it's worked in our favor.

Shane: That's awesome. Yeah, we mean, we have a lot of parallels, because my team is all remote as well. And then I have I'm here in Sacramento, California, and, and my team is all over. And it's that's one of the I mean, there's a lot of obviously, it's you know, it's like I get a lot of trial and error of trying to get it going and what software's to use and all that. But once you get a good cadence in place, I mean, I do love the fact that I can, you know, it can be five o'clock in California, I talked with the client and then in the morning time I have it done. And I'm like, how did you get that done? Like they don't understand. Like, I'm like, I run a 24-hour clock and they're like but that's illegal. And I go no it's not when you have time zones. And I'm like why people all over like that's the whole point of this is that I have this continuous clock that can go I mean, what you guys use software wise I'm Is it like, you know, slack and Trello and….

Aaron: So many things so and I worked on and trialed a bunch of different tools for managing remote teams and eventually just went off that and back to the basic one. So yeah, we've got Trello, don't use it hardcore, use base camp, where most of our columns at the moment, Skype, and then slack email, without Google Drive, Dropbox, pretty standard sort of stack. But like I said, we tried all the different fancy tools that are meant to handle it all in the right way. And never been convinced, you know, trying to convince everyone on your team to use the tools in the right way is tough part.

Shane: Yeah, we've kind of found the same thing as like we've used once again, base camp to sauna. I mean, if I had $1 for every software, I could just retire and I mean, it's because it's hard to get the once again to get the whole team to move to this and use it the right way. And we stick with I mean, for us, it's really Trello them has been good. We do slack, obviously. Obviously, you know, Dropbox or Google Drive, what slack has really helped us with our emails, like cutting down the amount of emails we receive because it's always hard when you're cc in people. And so that's helped with the management of projects and stuff like that so on. That's interesting. That's good. You got that I'm in it. My team is I think we're about 33 right now. Yeah, it's like I said, it's, it's been awesome. I think the outsourcing has been fun because it's, it takes a while. But once you get people trained up and you know, the remote thing is kind of its benefits. Once you find the right people, obviously now we have certain ways we interview people and ask them certain questions to kind of figure out like, you know, are you looking to, like, just work half time and make all this money or you really, you know, do you work hard? And what are those checks and balances to that?

Aaron: Yeah, exactly.

Shane: I'm like, I don't like to micromanage people. So, for me, I'm like, listen, you know, I'm not checking into this and checking into that, I mean, I'll have certain checks and balances. And if I start to, you know, my spider sense starts to tangle. And I go, Okay, thank you maybe might not be doing some stuff, then we'll probably get a call from me. But other that like, just do your stuff. Get it done on time. Life's good.

Aaron: Yeah. So, I always the thing that really changed for us is that, you know, you're dealing with so many different cultural intricacies that trying to manage that was really interesting at the beginning. You know, in India, we'd have everyone saying, Yes, sir, I'll take care of that completely understanding by saying delivering something completely not on point and not asking the question. So, then we realized that actually falls back on us and our processes and procedures and everything and took care of that. But then in the Philippines, we'd have people that would just disappear, they wouldn't ask us how to do things, they would just never respond again. And you'd be like, how do I get in contact with and then they'd be gone, and you'd have to hire someone else. And so, there were a lot of different things in different countries. And eventually, the way that we got past all that was to, only found the people that we really trusted and trained in the right ways, and then set them up as the head of that country. And it was then, you know, fewer people that I had to deal with directly or else time. And then I got to handle the cultural barriers and the end, and workers knew that I could speak to someone in the right language and culture. So that really fix things.

Shane: So, the reason why I'm laughing, you were saying that is because that is so spot on. Like, I don't know how many times and once again, it is very much a cultural thing and that was the hardest thing for me. I'm like, how is it that I told you what I needed? And you said, “Yes.” She said, “Hey, we can absolutely do that?” And then you just disappear. Like, I'm so confused on like, why wouldn't you just say, you know, like, hey, that's not within my will well but have some other people I could recommend, like, I literally hire people that I wait for two weeks and I'd say hey, what's going on? And then they'd be ghost.

Aaron: And the funny thing is, you’re asking these questions, like, you hope that you're actually talking to someone within my way of getting in touch with them. No one is answering them, those all just conversations in your head like; where are you?

Shane: Yeah and it's like, and so that's, it's funny. So, I was laughing because I literally been dead 1000 times. And so now, you know, and you realize that it is a cultural thing. Like it's like, hey, this is just something you have to learn to. I tell people like Hey, listen, like at the end of the day, if you're not a good fit, just tell me like I have no problems with that I would be instead of me giving you the task and then it not being done and me finding out when it's supposed to be done in two weeks and I'm 13 days in and I'm like, hey, you know hey, John, where you at? John where you at?

Aaron: Yeah.

Shane: And then John just never shows up right. And that's a problem anyways but that was I just laughing as we went through a lot of the same stuff as well…

Aaron: And the interesting thing as well as all these points you're talking on. There are fully industries out there that you know, you and I have both done like digital nomadism whole thing. And outsourcing and offshoring and managing our maintains is another whole industry and topic like yeah, you can go deep into all of them. And you need to know enough about each of them to stick together the right sort of company and the right business.

Shane: Well, in that someone's getting because of what you're talking about is that's that was the crazy part about it is that I used to another life, I had a company that had 130 employees that were in my office. And it was crazy, like any my old staff members that are listening, I love you guys. But it was crazy. Like it was literally like putting out fires all day. I mean, it just was crazy. You do with emotions and people coming? Oh, my husband's cheating on me that's like, oh, come sit down for two hours and let's talk about it.

Aaron: Yeah.

Shane: And shout out to all the husbands that have left their wives and wives, sorry but I'm not trying to be insensitive. But I mean, that's just what you deal with. Right? And not remotely, you still have your different things you deal with. But I told myself after that company that I'm like, I would never have that many staff members in one place. Not that, I just didn't have the freedom that I have now. Right. Like because of software's and stuff and putting people in places where they can manage stuff. It's just it's a different deal. Now it's, it's a lot more freeing.

Aaron: And mind you, it doesn't disappear fully. And you know, as well, you know, most of your day, I’m speaking out of time here. Most of my day is spent not doing the things that I want to be doing, you know, there's responding to HR issues or finance and dealing with the CFO. And it led to so many different things where you just want to be gone, hey, I really want to optimize the hell out of that side. I really want some strategy because I could be doing X, Y, Z and I'll kill it for them.

Shane: Yeah, that's the hard part is because you know, you want to go back to you know, it's kind of like I was just talking to somebody recently. Oh, it was one of my best friends. So, he's a fireman in Southern California. And his son was like, we were having a call like literally just before you and I jumped on. And he was like, I lost my leg a day. I lost my leg. That was like a big thing for him. And I go God, I can't I remember being a kid. And when losing a Lego in a day was like that was your thing to really stress about like God, I lost a Lego dad and you find like, Oh, God, I found a Lego. I'm like, kind of that was the only thing I had to worry about like.

Aaron: Where in Southern California is, he a firefighter?

Shane: Glendale.

Aaron: Glendale. Okay, my uncle is a captain of a firehouse in somewhere around Santa Rosa, I'd say.

Shane: So, Santa Rosa is going to be kind of almost by San Francisco. Like in that area. It's about an hour and a half from me. Santa Rosa is a great, like Sebastopol and there's some really great cities that are over in that area.

Aaron: Petaluma had a lot of the guys, but I used to be a firefighter. Yeah.

Shane: Really?

Aaron: Didn't find that one?

Shane: No. I'm definitely going fire my research person, sorry, if you're listening to this, actually, if you're my research person, you've already been fired and that's probably why you are listening. Just kidding, you're going to keep your job. So interesting is your fireman. How long were you a fireman for?

Aaron: Not long enough, it was only 18 months, maybe I love the best job in the world. If you have to have a job. And I didn't have a job, I had a company that I knew I could, I was making way more money in the company and was working while I wasn't on five calls, like being cold out that it just was too much. So, to be doing both of those things and then, you know, young family on the way and all that sort of stuff. So, I had to choose one of them.

Shane: So, my question is this, if you're making money, and you get the company going well. Why did you jump on to be a fireman? What was the crazy….?

Aaron: So, my uncle, one of my favorite people was a firefighter for most of his life. My best mate was a firefighter and Sydney. And it's a good job and good conditions and good to give back to the community, all that sort of stuff. So, it was always in the back of my mind to something I wanted to try. And in Sydney there were, I think 24,000 people applied for 24 positions when I try it out as 11 the stage process and to get through was just mind blowing. And I kind of just want to do the test to see if I can make it as well. And I did and I made it through I was one of 24 So yeah, made as a full-time firefighter and then just couldn't handle it or not the work, handle doing too many things at once.

Shane: Yeah, I love it. There's 24,000 people going for the job. And for you, you're like I just wanted to see if I can do the test. Like the guy that's listening to this didn't get a job is like, I hate that guy.

Aaron: Yeah, I absolutely hate that guy.

Shane: Like he's not I really want to get the job, you know, they just called me, and I was like, well, I'll show up on Tuesday and see if we can work this out. And his whole life and has been you know, is probably killed himself at this point. Because he didn't get the job. And you're like, you know, just another Tuesday.

Aaron: Yeah.

Shane: Another job, another department.

Aaron: I enjoyed it. I wish I had, if I have asked to get it, I'll probably go back to that.

Shane: Yeah, that's awesome. Well I get it; it seems like you're doing good. So what is like when you guys have so you have these 50 employees? So, what's like the perfect client for you? Like, what do you guys, where do you guys spend most of your time, like if we said, Hey, this is where you guys specialize in is that?

Aaron: Yeah, search and content marketing, anything on the organic side, we specialize in more than that. But that's where obviously you can hear that I'm competitive. So, and I like the competitive aspect to earning your spot, the only organic rankings and that sort of thing. So that has been the core of what we've done from day one. And we've just continued to grow in our expertise. And the clients have worked with their having said that we do all the paid social, we do AdWords, we do full strategies, content, strategy and production and auditing side of things that we do as massive as well. Terms of the ideal client, you know, everyone's got their marquee clients, I'd love to say more than marquee clients, typically tied up in bureaucracy with a lot of those big clients. So, you know, working in Salesforce, Intel, IBM, for Coke, LG, massive companies and we can get a lot more done. Well, I feel that I could get a lot more done for the sort of mid-sized companies than we do for those larger ones, even though the revenue impact we have from the bigger ones is bigger with either tweaks that get those big results. So the midsize companies I like working with its typically anyone that has a digital marketing manager or CMO in the company, it demonstrates that they've got a multi-channel marketing budget and we'll take over as many slices as we can get of that and run that for you.

Shane: So how do you guys feel like you have a sales team? All that kind of fun? So, like, how do you guys get leads? Like what is your big I mean that you'll do your secret sauce but like, you know what's, like, how do you go and find clients is they reach out to you is that all inbound is you guys do some calls, or what?

Aaron: the secret sauce is that we eat our own dog food, so to speak. Inbound is where we get most probably 80% of our leads. And obviously, you know, we work in the same industry. They're fully educated, they've already been pre-sold through your content and they come ready to sign for your service. That's way better for us and I love doing that I continue to write for publications every single month, Forbes entrepreneur business com Fortune Magazine, Search Engine Journal loads of them. And that brings our referral traffic inbound leads links, helps our site rank, there's a whole lot of stuff comes off the back of that.

Shane: Yeah, you're like my brother from another mother because I think we might be related or something that will figure out that later because I mean, we look identical but….

Aaron: Oh yeah.

Shane: It's just twins, twinzies these for sure. It's funny. So, it's up word the same way. So, ours is all inbound from the writing stuff that we've done or that I've done. So, it's kind of crazy. That's I mean, I don't really and I always say this and it’s not something I’m bragging about like, I don't have a sales team, like my sales team is literally, inbound leads that I get, actually we take that back, we just hired a sales guy, I think like a like a week ago. But before that, it's always been mean, it's always been inbound. So, we don't do anything other than that. It's more like the thought leadership stuff. And then people see us somewhere and they say at that point, they've already read some of your stuff. And they're kind of excited about, you know, the next steps. And as long as they have a budget and have some stuff in place, and they life's good.

Aaron: Yep. Yeah, exactly. It's good. And we do a lot of our stuff at all. So, I do interview such as this. There's a lot of inbound stuff, we've got a team that that does outrage but  it's obviously cold. And then we have to convince them and educate them for selling. So, there's a few different things we try with the bulk of it comes through eating our own dog food.

Shane: Yeah, I like that. So, what about from an SEO perspective, I guess from any perspective, but like, what are like three software's that you guys use? What are like the three software's that you rely on?

Aaron: Yeah. Atress is always number one for us. Great index. Actually, they here in Singapore. So, I know the guys here, Atress is fantastic. We do a lot of rank tracking through Accurancor, which works really well for us. So, you know, SEM rush or SEM rush however you want to pronounce it. I don't use it too much at the moment, though, the other ones probably take most of my focus.

Shane: So, Tim, so are so they and they're there in Singapore. I didn't know that.

Aaron: Yeah, yeah, you miss them when you came the head offices here and that's where all the guys came here.

Shane: I didn't see anybody when I was so lonely now, like, man, everybody was there. And I could have went out and had coffee or beers and…

Aaron: You would be surprised how many people in here, head of HootSuite in Asia is here. There's a whole team for HootSuite.

Shane: That’s awesome.

Aaron: There's a lot of big companies. A lot of people you didn't realize that were here.

Shane: I know. I know. Well, you would you and I, we were kind of going back and forth. And I was like, wait a second you and then we just never ended up connected. But I was like, Man that would have been awesome. I'll be out there again soon. I'll probably hopefully hit up in another month or two.

Aaron: Good, good.

Shane: So cool. So, what do you have, like so career wise? What do you think one of your biggest achievements or I mean, I know you were like a secret fireman and beat out, you know, 3000, you know, 768 people or whatever it was? Like, what do you like, career wise? Like, what do you say, man? That's like, you know, at this point, I mean, I know you've written some books and stuff, which I want to touch on after this. But I would your biggest achievement, would you say it's?

Aaron: Not so much something I've done specifically but I, when you say Career Achievement. My last 11 years has been done with my co-founder as well. So, it's not it's not everything that I've done alone. But I love that we've cracked the code of being able to live and work anywhere. And that we've done that for 11 years and continue to do that and flexibility of provides being able to pack up and want to move from a career perspective is I love that. That's been our biggest achievement. I would say just spend a lot of cool things, but I like that.

Shane: Yeah. And your co-founders, your wife, remember there's a right answer. There's a wrong answer. Is your wife smarter than you?

Aaron: Absolutely. Yeah. In every way.

Shane: So, she said the same thing. When I talked to her, she said that she's absolutely smarter that you.

Aaron: I nailed that one here. It’s not my first.

Shane: I was nervous because I was like, okay, if I say this, I'm like, God, I hope he doesn't mess this up. Because this has been recorded to it and we know she is going to listen to it. Okay, we're good. We're good. I was, I got to be honest, I had to hold my breath for a second. Oh, Jesus, say the wrong thing. And then it's just going to get weird. super weird. Okay, good. So obviously, what you've two books that you've written? Right? So, one is what the Complete Guide to building your personal brand. And the other one is like, you know, building your blog audience, and you did one of them. Was it both with Neil Patel and one of them?

Aaron: Yeah. So, I haven't really, we can call them books. I mean, that's 30 to 40,000 words long. They're both written with Neil. They're both on Quick Sprout.com at the moment, a great day achieved everything we're hoping to achieve with it. But we've actually got a book that is a proper book that is on the way out, probably in the next few months. It's called faster, smarter, louder. And that's pretty much everything that we've been talking about, you know, in a book and a lot of a lot more detail on how we do what we do and how stories that we've had to get to that point. And yeah, it's good. I'm looking forward to that one coming out.

Shane: So, I was supposed to, this is a funny story. So, I was supposed to co-write a book with a friend of mine, Amanda, that we kind of decided not to do that. So long story short, when we were putting together a contract for it. And this is I'm only bring this up because of your wife. One of the big things and I didn't know this, my attorney was like, so she was like, well, whose name is going to be first? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I didn't really know that was a factor because I'd written a book and because my attorney had a lot of experience with this kind of stuff. And I'm like, I guess mine, but I don't know. And she's like, well that's something you really got to be figure that out. Like, that was a big, not with Amanda, who I was going to write the book with. But for my attorney was like, you have to figure that out. Like, you need to be ready for that call. And I'm like, I didn't, I was just, I don't know. And then I was like, why do I want to be second but I'm like; Who's going to be right most like it really was, it was This, to me was kind of I don't think was that big of a deal. But then later on, I was like, wow, this is a big deal. My attorney got me all pumped up because I was like, I have got to be ready. Like I tell them to explain to them why I need to be in first place on this thing. So, I'm not asking who's going to be first places. We'll see when the book comes out.

Aaron: I'm happy to answer that anyway, I understand the questions. Our thought process or at least mine was we've never put work into building John's personal brand, but we have mine. And so therefore, I wasn't worried when mine went. I was happy to for it to be second. So, when the ladies first throughout and just went, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how it turned out. Anyway, I could be wrong but that’s where my heads at the moment.

Shane: So, your wife said, No, I’m just kidding. I don't know what your wife said. I didn’t ask her that. But that's interesting. I once again, for me, that was an effective, but I just thought that was interesting when I heard that because it just didn't, it was never something I thought about until I started to think about it. And I was like, you know, if it was my wife, and I do like that, but that was a good answer with I put my wife first because it's Ladies first. So that was a scholar, gentleman and a scholar. Interesting. Interesting. So cool. Okay, from an SEO perspective, like, what would be your one piece of advice? Like, what do you think so, you know, there's always these articles of like, oh, SEOs dead, or this or that, which is all, you know, we know that's all BS.? But like, what do you like, from an SEO perspective? Like, what would be your one piece of advice? Like you're saying, hey, like, if I was to tell any company like this is the way you, not really take care of your SEO, but like, what is the one thing that I think people overlook? When it comes to SEO? Like, what is the one thing that they could take away and go, Oh, we're not doing that. We need to do more of that.

Aaron: Yeah. So, I feel like I'd love to give you something an answer that's going to blow your mind. But my answer to this is, the normal stuff that I tell everyone is stop creating content for the sake of creating content and actually provide value in that piece of content. And not that piece of every piece that you put forward. It's absolutely mind blowing that 90% of the clients that we see in the websites that we come on board, the whole content strategy is built around talking about their product or service and their latest update, or where they were saying in the impress, and like no one cares, you know, write about your industry, provide value, entertain, or educate and be the best answer to that question that you're answering better than anyone else in that piece of content and have a strategy that's built around that that's consistent. I'm so sick of saying the three to 500 words piece of crap content that was written because someone said hey, we need to do content marketing, and they're going with my results. That's my answer to that. That happens with massive companies as well.

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: You got to have the right content strategy in place.

Shane: Yeah. When it's, it is funny. So, I've seen some companies that once again, that it's when anybody that comes to me says, oh, we're already doing it. We're writing 300 words blog articles and I go, boy, you guys are saying a lot those 300 words, I'm assuming, is a reason why you reached out to me, I think, because your blog content is epic.

Aaron: Yeah, exactly.

Shane: Cool. You just, I didn't know if you fell.

Aaron: I didn’t fell off the chair, the camera fell.

Shane: I was like man I got to be careful when you're drinking in the morning but I'm not here to judge I'm just saying like whatever works for you if you want to work remote because you drink in the morning like that's cool. Just everybody knows that. If because obviously this is an audio, the video we have a video going and the video fell it I thought Aaron fell down or something like that. I thought maybe his wife would attack him versus me said which I thought everything you said was good. So, I think he's solid there. I think it'd be good for another few years, at least, but I'm pretty sure but yeah, why did you guys end up in Singapore? Like how did that jump on your guys’ map?

Aaron: I love Thailand love coast and I still love it. The kids needed more. So, we moved to the kids went back to Sydney and didn't like it there. And thought where's some way that we can get the best of both worlds, the Asian conveniences and everything that we talked about Asia as well as opportunities for the kids. And so those the decision, education here is second to none. It's amazing where the kids’ school and a lot of opportunities that one-hour flights, all the places that we want to go direct one-hour flight. So, there's a lot of good reasons for.

Shane: And the literacy rate is what like 97 or 98% are something crazy.

Aaron: Everything's crazy and adjust the education and lucky sort of touched on earlier. It's like a virtual utopia in many ways. You know, the cleanest sane in the world access to everything great for business taxes, lovely for expats. There's a lot of really nice things that I didn't even know until I was here for a while.

Shane: Yeah, I'm sold on Singapore, man, I'd say I'd go if somebody wanted to pay for me to get a Singaporean tattoo. I probably do it. And then I'm not saying it's recommended but I will probably do it. So where is so, out of all the places I think you already kind of touched on this. So, you one of your favorite places has been Thailand? Is that kind of where it’s kind of had the most the biggest impression on you? I mean, up until Singapore and where you at today?

Aaron: Yeah, I just I love being able to just sit there's a vibe there where you can just stop and breathe. And its Thailand fraying, you can pretty much do anything you want to do, as long as you're not hurting someone else and being stupid. And if you are, then you get punished severely for it and….

Shane: Yeah.

Aaron: I like that because it's not a nanny state, right? You're not told how to live and all of a sudden, so you have a lot of that mental freedom that happens just by being there. And then you can focus on the things that you want to focus on. Plus, you're on a beach here in beautiful tropical weather, you know, I live in nothing but shorts every day. It's a great spot, and you're doing it a fraction of the cost of living somewhere where all these other worlds exist. So yeah, a lot of positive.

Shane: Got you. So, you hate rules?

Aaron: I hate rules that I have to follow that I can't bend or break. Yes.

Shane: Yeah, alright. It looks like I have a rule breaker. Okay, I get it. I get it. No, that's good. It feels free to tell everybody your rule breaker like this is it I'm sure. I always heard about bad boy Aaron. I didn't know what they meant but I just that was the thing going around the underground marketing world. I always heard it. And I was like, I don't know what that means. But I'm going to ask them on the podcast. So now we know.

Aaron: That's me apparently.

Shane: That’s the rumors must be true. I don't know. So, let's do this. This is going to be my last question for the podcast here. So, if you had $1 million, if I was come bring you $1 million cash, just Stone-Cold cash, you don't pay taxes on it or anything. This is just a secret gift from me to you because obviously I care for him. Yeah, you're like, let me give you my address in case or if you just want to bring it on out yourself. That's fine.

Aaron: I said do you want somebody to fly you out? I will fly you out for that.

Shane: You I will? Absolutely I'll bring I'll bring gum will just go he do nothing but a party. So, what would you do? Like why would that change your life? Like what do you I don't see you as somebody that's like basing your whole life off of money, right? I think it's like, hey, I have money and that's fine. It's not like, you know, I guess you're very driven person. But like, would that change your life? Would you change things up? If you'd get a million dollars? Like, would you shut the company down? Would you like, how would that change things?

Aaron: It would absolutely change things but it would change things not in the way that I'd be shutting the company down or anything like that a lot of our plans have always been that we have got great marketing agency, we want to use those services for our own web assets as well. So, you know, ecommerce sites and you know, build health and nutrition sites in the past have done that with Neil Patel have a whole bunch of other stuff. So, it's always been to see if we can use our marketing engine on our own assets. Million dollars of cash would be me being able to throw a whole lot more assets and things up now rather than bit by bit. And that would be mentally frying it would be to speak advancement. Don't always trying to take from one area and put it towards another and see how it balances and all of that. So that would be good. But that's me talking about business as well, it personally, if I had a million dollars cash, I would be knowing that my kids were sorted that I don't have to worry about buying property and a will and all that stuff that you do to try and help your kids out in the long run. That's not an hour, all I have to worry about is myself and I can survive really easy.

Shane: Well then you wouldn't have to be a male dancer on the weekends.

Aaron: It's not that I have to, I listen to hits, like I like….

Shane: Inspiration.

Aaron: Yeah, yeah.

Shane: And the first time I saw you dance, I remember thinking, wait a second, this is illegal. So anyways, I don't know why I would be watching you dance. When I said that out loud. I was like, damn, this has been recorded. I can't take that back. Now. We just can't take that back.

Aaron: That’s live, that's public.

Shane: Man Jesus. This is the difficult part. It's like I have the time when we have these types of conversations. I have guests that will just say listen, I'll give you cash. If you could just give me that recording. If we could just not go live with your recording as people don't, most people don't know that I'm a smart ass. So, it's like when they jump on, they think oh, we're going to talk about content. Like this is really great. By the end of it. They're like, and I don't even know if we have the things that we said if that was legal, and some you could I mean, you know,

Aaron: It works perfectly for me. This is how I spend my time.

Shane: Yeah, that's me too as me to like, hey, we're not having fun and saying awkward stuff. So, we can't catch eye contact next time then it's not existent.

Aaron: You weren’t looking at my eyes when I was dancing anyway. So, let's not pretend it happen.

Shane: I just, I was sitting on the lower seat so yes, I will be honest with you. It was an eye contact that I was going for but now this guy is super awkward and now that everybody everybody's question my sexuality on my own podcast, so like I was married, kid in college. So, confused. It's just the Singapore thing. I don't know. Well, awesome. Hey, you were a great guest, but nothing but a good time. We got to keep in contact. I've had you on the blog a few times. And we got to talk about next steps man, I'm excited you got you. Literally all the stuff that you're talking about is like was a flashback from memory lane like just hustling getting up and going and remote and working internationally and all that kind of stuff is just kind of funny that we have a lot of the same path that we took. It's just it's just interesting.

Aaron: I agree. It's been good to connect. Appreciate. Appreciate the opportunity. So, I assume I'll see you in a few weeks and you get your butt back out here with a big suitcase full of a million dollars cash.

Shane: Yeah, and gum don't forget….

Aaron: Please, small notes. Small notes.

Shane: Yeah and gum. I'll bring I mean; I'll probably bring more gum than money, but the point is I'm coming out.

Aaron: Yeah, there's the resale value on the gum.

Shane: Exactly right.

Aaron: I get it.

Shane: Yeah, trust me. I man I can't wait to be the guy. So, I know. I'll probably go to prison but cool, brother, man. Hey, once again. Thanks again for being on the podcast and we'll talk to you soon.

Aaron: Sounds good. Thank you.

Shane: Thanks man.

Aaron: Bye.

Shane: Bye.