As the VP of Marketing at Content Marketing Institute, Cathy leads the marketing efforts for CMI, ContentTECH Summit, Content Marketing World, and other CMI properties. In addition to this, Cathy is a judge at the Content Marketing Awards organized by CMI. She even serves as a Board Member on the Ohio University College of Business Marketing Advisory Board.
WEBSITE: Content Marketing Institute
- Cathy’s career progression
- What’s more important: real-life world experience or a degree?
- How content technology works
- Which is better for marketing - LinkedIn or Twitter?
- What gets engagement on Twitter
- How content marketing is changing
[2:05] How Cathy’s College Education Was Sponsored
[6:36] Interest in Journalism & Media Planning
[12:19] How Cathy Got Into Marketing
[17:18] Journey With Content Marketing Institute
[23:06] Twitter and LinkedIn for businesses
[29:15] Twitter Chats and Hashtags
[34:00] Getting Engagement on Twitter
[37:53] Cathy’s Take on Content Marketing
[45:01] Cathy’s Love For the Nonprofit Sector
[50:25] Hashtag That Describes Cathy’s Life
As businesses realize the potential of content marketing, they are exploring different platforms for it. In 2018, 87% of B2B marketers said that they used Twitter for content marketing.
As a content platform, Twitter is always buzzing with fresh information. From breaking news to brand campaigns, everything that demands an instant reaction works on Twitter. But with the endless stream of content, it’s difficult to stand out on Twitter.
Image via Content Marketing Institute
If you want to grab the attention of your target audience, you need to develop a winning Twitter content strategy. But that is easier said than done. Developing a Twitter content strategy requires a deep understanding of the social media platform.
Best Tips To Ace Content Marketing on Twitter
Twitter isn’t like the other social media platforms. It doesn’t allow you to write more than 280 characters. So, the rules of copywriting on Facebook and Instagram don’t necessarily apply to Twitter.
Content marketing on Twitter is tricky. To help you sail through, we’ve compiled some strategies that will plan your content on Twitter.
1. Have a Clear Goal
Before you get onto planning, take a while to understand your motivation for creating content on Twitter. What’s the ultimate outcome or goal you want from your Twitter content? Note that this will be different than the main goal of your business.
Say, you sell cloth bags because you want to reduce the usage of plastic. Using Twitter, you want your target audience to become aware about your brand and your mission. It’s crucial to understand why you’re using Twitter for marketing.
Next, identify your target audience on Twitter. You can have multiple target markets too. That’s okay as long as you have all of your audience personas detailed out. For each persona that you create, try to understand their biggest pain points. It’ll help you understand your audience’s needs.
2. Find the Right People to Follow
Marketing on Twitter is all about building a community of like-minded people. Once you are clear about your target audience, find people who fit the criteria. You need to be highly targeted in your search.
It may be tempting to follow every profile you see to increase your follower count. But avoid following random people at all costs. Remember your focus is to find people who might be interested in your products. You could also look for people whose values match with your business’ values.
The key is to find people who are likely to engage with your posts. An easy way to find such people is to look at the followers of other brands in your niche. You can choose to follow those people who have been recently active.
You should also find influencers in your niche and follow them. To maximize your chances of getting a response from them, follow nano and micro-influencers. Even a single reply from an influencer can put the spotlight on your Twitter account.
3. Share Quality Content
The prerequisite to creating a successful social media strategy is to create quality content. This cardinal rule gets only slightly tweaked for Twitter. You don’t necessarily always need to create content, you can share it too.
Twitter is all about sharing information. If you find an article that may be interesting to your target audience, share it. Curate content that will provide value to your followers. You can retweet shareworthy quotes, memes, and GIFs to engage your audience.
Retweeting is a great way to increase your frequency of posting on Twitter. The lifespan of each tweet is only a few hours long. So, you can’t just tweet once a day. You need to post multiple times during the day to keep the attention of your attention.
On Twitter, Netflix regularly shares funny observations and anecdotes from their fans and other celebrities. Which helps them engage their audience while creating buzz around their brand.
Image via Twitter
When you’re merely retweeting, you are passing on interesting content. There is no space to add a caption or your thoughts to the post. However, if you’re tweeting original posts, you’ll need to think of a catchy caption.
The 280-character word limit can feel restraining. But it’s enough to get your readers interested in your content.
Read through your posts and find interesting statistics that could seem shocking or fascinating to people. Or look for interesting quotes that will make people think. The key to writing captions on Twitter is to spark people’s curiosity.
4. Engage with Your Audience
Even if you get all of the other steps right, your Twitter content strategy won’t work without engagement. One of the best ways to get your audience to engage with your content is to respond to their comments and questions.
When you reply, you’re actually striking up a conversation with them. If you’ve got nothing to say, simply thank them for commenting. Engaging with your audience is the best way to start meaningful relationships with your followers.
Just make sure you’re authentic in the way you interact. Instead of sending automated responses, use a more personalized approach. Stick to your brand voice to maintain consistency in your branding.
Take a leaf from Taco Bell’s Twitter profile. They make sure their comments are slightly humorous and entertaining to maintain a friendly brand voice.
Image via Twitter
If you receive negative feedback, respond to it with grace. Many brands choose to ignore or delete such comments. But that will only harm your brand reputation. Instead, apologize and tell them how you can fix the issue.
A winning content strategy on Twitter takes more than just tweeting once a day. You need to curate interesting content, write compelling captions, and engage with your audience. More than anything, when it comes to content, it’s important to understand that you need to provide value to your followers.
Do you have any other tips to create a winning Twitter content strategy? Please share your views in the comments section below.
Shane: Welcome to the podcast. I am Shane Barker. You're host in Shane Barker Marketing Madness podcast. Today's episode is about how to create a winning Twitter content strategy and I have with me Cathy McPhillips, an expert content strategist, marketer and VP of marketing at CMI. She's spoken at various global events on content marketing. We'll discuss Cathy's secret recipe of creating a strong and effective Twitter marketing strategy. Listen, as she shares more details about her career journey, her role at content marketing institute. It's a valuable resource for everyone who wants to capitalize on Twitter marketing. Let's start off with Cathy back in the day. Let's talk about little Cathy, right now we have older, extremely wise Cathy, right? So let's talk about Cathy, when you first started growing up, did you actually grow up in Cleveland as well or? Cathy McPhillips: I did. Shane: You did? Cathy McPhillips: I left for an entire four years. I went to college on Southern Ohio, moved back, met my husband who lived six miles from where I grew up. So we don't go too far. We local wonders, we don't leave. Shane: No, I mean if you got a good spot. I mean, if your husband's only six miles away. Why do you have to? That little radius, that's all you need really. Cathy McPhillips: Right? I mean all my siblings we're all, everyone's real close. Well mostly, we're a tight knit bunch. Shane: That's awesome. So your family is still really close today? Cathy McPhillips: Yes. Well, I have one sister in Colorado, one brother in Utah but we're trying to get them both to come back. My sister is moving back pretty soon but I'm one of six. My mom remarried and my Stepdad has five. So, it's fun holidays. Shane: I was going to say that Christmas, thanksgiving, you guys have to have a big house for that last time I checked. So I think an interesting fact is that there's 11 siblings in total, some merged families that always, that happens. Like what's a fun fact about you like growing up that people would have no idea you'd say, okay, nobody knows this about Cathy, but I mean other than your husband was six miles away, you have a pretty close knit family. Like is there any other like cool, fun facts that if anybody was like they would never know that you can tell us? I guess. Cathy McPhillips: I guess one story that I've not been telling people for most of my life that I just started telling people within the past couple of years is that I was just really in this fortunate situation when I was in high school. So our high school was so big, there were four principles and they all each were principals of a certain house. So one day my house principal called me on the PA system in the class I was in and said Kathy, come to the office which I mean that's unheard of. I never got called to the office. So everyone in the class was like, Ooh, Kathy's in trouble. So I went down there and he talked to me for about 15 minutes, how's life, what are you doing next year? I was a senior, how about your family? Are you working? What's going on? He knew a lot of that stuff but he said, look, let's just kind of go through this again. I'm like, okay. We went through it, he is like, okay, thanks. Go back to class and I just laughed like that was really weird but all right. So didn't think anything about it and then about two weeks later I got a call back down to the office and there was a man sitting there who was probably in his seventies at that time with all the principals actually. They said, do you know why you're here? I said, I have no idea. Apparently this gentleman, he and his wife, when they were in their twenties and thirties tried forever to have children and they had one daughter and before she was born they started saving for her to go to college and she ended up passing away at a very young age. So he approached the high school that he graduated from and said, we would like to pay for one female to go to college. So each of the principals in our school interviewed who they thought were deserving high school senior’s females because they wanted it to be a daughter and they picked me. Shane: Jesus, I have like goosebumps, like that's like crazy, yeah. Cathy McPhillips: So I was really, really fortunate. We stayed in touch for a long time after I took them my report cards, I took them to lunch when I would come home on break. So I think he didn't, he's like, I don't need your report card. I'm like, I know but your kind of putting me here and it took a lot. My mom's like, go see him. I'm like, I know. So she was very good at making sure I spent time with him and then once she nudged me I got in the habit of enjoy spending time with them. The last time I saw him, I had my three months old and a baby carrier but went to go see him and then I was writing him notes and then one day I got a note returned from his lawyer saying that he had passed away but he saw me through from 18 until my son was like 10 years. I knew him before he passed away. So pretty cool story. Shane: That is an oh my God, I mean it's like it goes above a cool story. Like that's awesome that it's like I think good things happen to good people and that's one of those things that it's like especially coming into the principal's office, you're like, I have no idea what is going on because that's not a place you, in theory want to be. Right? Unless somebody is given you a four-year scholarship, paid scholarship and you're going to impact somebody's life in such a positive way by doing something that's awesome. Wow, that's awesome. I have to tell you. out of all the interviews I've done, that was a very personal moment for you and I think it's awesome that you shared that. That's kind of like really cool. I'm a very emotionally driven type person. You tell me his story and I'm like, oh my God, I think I know where this is going. I literally have goosebumps. That's really cool. Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, and I said to myself, once that happened, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do it for someone someday. And in reality, I have two kids of my own. So I'm like, okay, we not be able to do that fully but whenever I can, if I can help a student, help them get a job or look at their resume or do something to help make their future better, it definitely has had a lasting impact on me. So. hopefully I'm carrying on the legacy that he is proud of me. Shane: That is so, so cool. Well, this is what you should do with your kids is that you'll surprise them and bring them to the principal's office and say, you know what? I talked to your dad and we're going to pay for your college and be like, wow, we had no idea. Mom, you're the best. You're welcome...You know what? We're just going to pay this forward. That's awesome. That's a really cool story and you said, what college did you go to? Cathy McPhillips: Ohio university? in Athens, Ohio, not Ohio State. This is just to differentiate. Yeah, so I was studying journalism there and it was a fun, fun place. I have a high school senior right now and I have two kids, one who's a college sophomore and one that's a high school senior and neither of them are going to Ohio. Honestly, I was a little bit, but... Shane: So it's crazy. So my son is in his second year of college at Chico State and it's crazy to have kids in college. I mean, for me that's like surreal. Like I still don't really, when I say it out loud it doesn't, I don't know. It's crazy to me. Cathy McPhillips: Yeah. You're like, weren't we just there? Shane: I feel like it, like a week ago I felt like maybe we went to the same college and I just saw you in the dorms or something. Like it's a weird thing. It's just one of those, I don't know, like when people tell me or when I tell people that, they're like, are you serious? you have a son in college? I'm like, yeah, it's crazy to me. I should probably give him a call this week, now that he is kind of top of my mind. Well cool then and so you said that you studied journalism, which I think makes total sense with your current position. So you studied journalism, what did you, what was your, I mean obviously your goal wasn't to go work for CMI, right? Because it wasn't even around. So what were your goal with journalism? Like what did you want to do? Cathy McPhillips: Well, here's another funny story. So it was my junior year of high school and for our AP English class, we had to do a paper on what we wanted to do when we got older. I'm like, I don't know, I'm 16. So I went up to my teacher and I said, I don't know, I don't even know where I should start and she said, well what are your strengths? And I said, math and art. She said, you can't be good at both of those things. Go to the library, go take a test. So I did, I took this test and answer all these personality questions, your strengths and weaknesses and everything and marketing stood out and I was like, okay. So, we were looking at schools and Oh, you had a great journalism program and they had a bunch of different marketing paths. Marketing as a business degree in journalism and journalism seemed like a better fit for me at the time but they're so related. Journalism, I knew I didn't want to work for a newspaper and write. I didn't want to be behind the camera or in front of the camera or behind for that matter and then I just really lucked out. I had a professor my freshman year and we were working with a media plan in class and she said, we were going through a bunch of numbers and I was doing some formula and she said, who's your advisor? I told her who it was and she's like, go switch to me. So I switched to her and I still talk to her today. She's amazing but she kind of helped me navigate my path into the media planning path because she had had 30 years of craft in the hands on job. She wasn't just a professor, I had some amazing professors who were just professors but just having that background, it was so amazing. I still talk to her, at least once a year and Christmas. She kind of helped me navigate what I wanted to be doing with my journalism degree. So, when someone says I was media planning but my major was journalism, like that's not even connected. I'm like, well it's actually totally connected but until you're like in there, you can't see it. I could see how that can be some confusion. Shane: So it's funny. So one of your instructor, she actually worked at the craft for 30 years? So she was a practitioner. Oh, that's awesome. Cathy McPhillips: She was, it sort of help bring that knowledge with the book and the curriculum and having that, okay, this is actually what you're going to use of this lesson and here's how. She was amazing. Shane: Well, it's funny. So I've talked about this a little bit in the past. So, there was a local college here in Sacramento that wanted to hire me to be an instructor and I am not going to tell you the college because I'm going to say something, it's not that bad. The lady came to me and says, Hey, a lot of our instructors are older instructors and they're teaching stuff that they've never done. Right? So that's becomes an issue because you're sixty years old and you don't have an Instagram profile. You're talking about how to do Instagram marketing and not say that you can't do it but so they were saying we need a practitioner. So what was interesting to me is I was going to go back and get my MBA or get my master's or whatever. Then all of a sudden I had UCLA knock on my door and they said, hey, for us, usually you have to get it grandfathered in or you have to be a CEO of some crazy Adobe or something to get in but because they wanted me to talk and do the influencer marketing thing, a personal brand and influencer marketing. So they came and brought me in, I didn't have to get my MBA and they did it because I was a practitioner because I was in the space actually physically dealing it, which I thought was awesome. This other college, which was a lot smaller college said you have to have a MBA. They wanted my experience but I had to have an MBA because I have to say that I have an MBA. It's kind of that old school way of thinking of like, you want me because of my experience but then you want me to go get an MBA just so behind my name I have an MBA which I get that because that's been the parameters up until this point but these other people have MBAs and been teachers for 30 years, but they don't have the real world experience. So it's interesting and I'm kind of hoping that there's a little bit more of that real world experience that happens because I think as you said, I mean anybody can read a book and regurgitate what they just read but it's actually to say, okay, let me show you how I applied this at craft and how we put this all together I think is 10 times more important, right? Actually being able to assess the situation, assess what you’re learning and be able to show the students, hey, this is how it's applicable to real world situations. Cathy McPhillips: Right. I actually just had this discussion because like once a semester I'm teaching at Cleveland State, not teaching but guest lecture in Cleveland State, Ken state acronym and a bunch of places around here and I love it. I love it so much. I love seeing the students' eyes open up when you say something like, oh my gosh, I could do that or I enjoy doing that or whatever. Just helping them a little bit, like I said, it's a passion of mine. I popped them before and they said, do you have your MBA? and I say, no. I'm like, oh and at this point I'm 47. Do I really want to go back and invest the money to get my MBA to do this? So, I could make less money being a professor, it is not about the money necessarily but the money I'd put out to get my MBA and the time I invest to go do that and not that I'm the most brilliant marketer in the world but I've been working for 25 years. Shane: That's the thing that's crazy to me is like I literally have thought about going, just recently going back to get my MBA strictly, if my son hears this, he's going to lose his mind--strictly just to tell my son I got my MBA. Like it's not even for financial, it's not because I could make more money. There's nothing more to it other than I can say, Hey, I got my MBA and for my son to tell his son. So, it's literally like, not an ego thing but just to say that I did it. There's no value like for me, like my career doesn't... If I go other than well not even the university thing now because UCLA came in and accepted me. So at that point, I might get open arms from other universities if I was to apply I would think. I guess we'll see, only time will tell. The college thing was interesting to me. It was a very interesting transition because teaching students is just a lot different than, I mean you're applying the stuff that you learned but it's just a different deal. I mean would fly down to LA and my class was Tuesdays from 6:30 to 9:30 and so it's three hours of curriculum and so that was like, I mean, I'm a Talker but I'm like three hours of curriculum was a long time. Then putting all that together was just an interesting, it had been really interesting to see... The learning curve on it was pretty big but like I said, I really enjoy it now. I took these last few quarters off to work on some project but I'm excited about going back for sure. It's been a great opportunity. So how did you actually get into the marketing space? I mean other than it sounds like you had some great instructors, you were doing the journalism thing. How did that catapult you? When you got out of college, how did you realize, hey, marketing was the way for you? Other than some assessment tests that you've taken and stuff like that. When did you realize marketing was what you wanted to pursue as a career? Cathy McPhillips: I really just loved it when I got to school. I loved the media planning classes. I even loved my copywriting class, which you'd think you wouldn't... but I loved it. I think part of why I loved the cop writing class was that my professor was so analytic about our work and if you followed the rubric, you got an A. I was such a rule follower that I did it but it was just so fascinating to use like that side of my brain. I'm like okay, I really like all aspects of this and when I graduated from Ohio, I moved back to Cleveland and it took me almost a year to find a job. So I worked at the mall just to make some money and then I found a job in an AD agency in Cleveland... and the media department there was very small and no one was going anywhere. So I knew I was not going to get a job there but they had an opening in production just as a coordinator. I'm like okay, I'll take it and just get my foot in the door. Then hopefully, eventually I'll be able to move into the media department and once I was there, it was really eye opening. I saw a lot of things I wasn't exposed to in school. I was learning, the creative team knew me, the production team knew me. They were dependent on me to do all these things and when I did transfer into the media role. It was just so nice because the way the media works with production and creative, I was going to them as a media planner saying okay, I'm booking this TV spot. I'm booking this print ad. Do you want the print ad horizontal or vertical? Do you want the commercial 15 second or 32nd and the crazy... like, oh my gosh, no one ever asks us this? They just say, we bought 15 seconds, make it work. So having experienced this department, I really didn't love, oh, it was great. It really was. I just knew it wasn't what I ultimately wanted us to do. It was very, very good for me. I think it's been great to try out different things at agencies. So I worked with two agencies and then I've been doing my own thing since 99 until I met Joe. Shane: So it sounds like you worked for a few agencies, so that's where you kind of got some experience from it and then you started your own agency, right? I mean, you had your own company up until 99 and then Cathy McPhillips: I did, form 99 point 2012 I was doing my own thing. I was very fortunate that when I was advertising in Cleveland, I had an amazing boss who end up moving out to LA and was working at Saatchi in LA. He's actually still there and one of my old clients, who was one of my biggest account I worked on. It was Applebee's international and he was in Kansas City. So quiet a lot of time I was leaving, he was leaving and he said. I called him one day and I said, hey, I just want to let you know I'm quitting. I'm going to stay home for a little bit and do my own thing. I had a newborn at that time or one-year-old and he said, can you wait two weeks? He goes, I'm actually quitting and I said, no, because I already made my mind up. So I said but before I do, I went to him first. I said before I went, go and tell my boss, I worked with lots of 20-year-old women. So it's going to travel fast. I want you to find out from me before you hear it from somebody else. I was one of those 20 something year old women so, but anyway. So, he started working for an agency for a restaurant group in Oklahoma City and said, would you do all of my media from home? I'd rather have you in Cleveland doing it from home than having someone in Oklahoma City who I don't know, so I said sure. So that started something small just so I could kind of do my mom thing for a little bit and still have some hours, keep my brain in the industry and then totally but surely people reaching out to me saying, Hey, I loved your work when you were at Y, are you looking for some business? It was nice. I mean, I look back and I don't know how I did, how I was working. I was always working with little kids but I did It. Somehow I survived, I mean, it was hard. Lots of hard days, lots of late nights, early mornings but I loved it. I think what I liked most about it was, aside from the relationships that I had and how they understood what I was trying to do, why I was home until I kind of taught myself a lot of things that I wouldn't have learned in roles that I was in otherwise. I read things every day, probably way too much. So when social came along, I taught myself how to do it. When this came along like digital came along, I learned how to do analytics just things like that, that if I was just in a role in a company or for an agency, I probably wouldn't have had the opportunities or may not have pushed myself as much to go look for them or find them. Shane: So it sounds interesting, it sounds like, well first of all, you put yourself in a position to be able to find a lot of opportunities. You treat people right and you do good things and then naturally comes your way and you're always a learner, right? So, there's always a next level. I think that's what I love about the digital space is that there's always something to learn. I always try to learn just enough to be dangerous and then I go find somebody that's better at it than me so I can hire him. So that's always my goal, is just so I know kind of the premise of how things need to be handled and we'll get my hands dirty most of the time in the beginning and then hopefully have somebody that can take it off my hands. So, and then you ended up meeting Joe, right? This was what year? You said 99? Cathy McPhillips: 2012, I met him, Shane: 2012, Got you, Got you. Okay. So the last seven years. How did that all come about? Cathy McPhillips: It was kind of like a perfect storm. He was looking for someone to head up marketing so at that time he and Pam Kudelka who was running operations, they were kind of tag teaming the marketing part of it. So he also had at one point a heating and cooling arm of CMI. I'm not sure if you know that but they were doing some content creation for the HPAC industry. Those companies could call them and say well, we'll take some of your blog posts so we don't need to write them and among other things, that's making it sound so small but it actually was a pretty cool venture. Then, so my brother-in-law owns the heating and cooling company in Cleveland and then I had been tweeting with Joe and then something else. I think I came up on a LinkedIn search. So three things. So he asked my brother in law, do you know anyone in Cleveland? He said, well, my sister in law but she has her own thing, maybe she can help you out in the meantime. Then I was tweeting him and then I came up in a search on LinkedIn. It's like alright, maybe I should call her. So we ended up meeting for breakfast and he kind of went through what the job description was and at that point I had a full, I had 40 hours. I had a whole bunch of clients and my day of the breakfast I said okay, it actually sounds really interesting. I said I can give you 20 hours, that's my best I can do right now and he said okay, I'll have you full time in six months. I was like walking out, I don't know who this guy thinks he is but really I am happy with what I'm doing right now. So four months later I went full time. So he was right. Shane: Joe for the win. There we go. That's what happens I guess. So you are, that's funny. I love it that you're like, I was already working 40 hours, so I can give you 20 hours. You're like, okay, so I'll be at 60 hours. You sound like myself. Like it's one of those like, no, there's more room and my wife's like, there's no more room. I'm like, no, there is some room watch, I'll make some room. She's like, whoa. That's probably the reason why you're losing your hair Shane's because there's not a lot of room left. Awesome. So, and then obviously that's been the last seven years and obviously we all, we all know content marketing institute, what they've done and what you guys have put together. It's a phenomenal program and the books that Joe's put together and all that kind of stuff. So I know you had just recently gone to like content tech summit in San Diego. How did you like that summit? Like I haven't been out there yet, but I've heard good things about it. How was that when you're there? Obviously San Diego is a fun place to visit as well, but... Cathy McPhillips: Right. So, it is a CMI event. I don't know if you knew that but so in previous years we had the intelligent content conference. That was one of our events and we had that in Las Vegas. Then this year we decided to pivot it a little bit and get away from the whole idea of intelligent content and like more focused, more on just content and technology and strategy because we thought that was like a sweeter spot for marketers. Send the intelligent content side, that's a lot heavy content strategy. A lot of things that marketers really aren't and shouldn't be involved in. They might want to know about it, but do you really want to invest all this money for things that you should know about but you can't implement. So we know the technology they can, the strategy they can so content tech was born. In San Diego, I have to tell you San Diego versus Las Vegas for me was such a better way. I mean the sun was shining kind of pretty much guaranteed beautiful weather and we love Vegas but San Diego, I really liked it. It was a good event. We got a lot of really great speakers, about 40 speakers, 400 people. So it was a much smaller version of content marketing world and the thing I like about content tech, the best way for me to describe it as content marketing world, we covered the gamut. 28 tracks I think this year of content marketing, from social to ROI to sales, demand Gen, etc. Content check is really focused on everything but content creation, like what you do before you create content, figure out what you should be writing about and then what you do with it after from a distribution and amplification analytics standpoint. It's not really focused on the writing per se, so everything else. So I thought it was, I thought it was really fun. I learned so much. I mean there are so many smart speakers in the industry like Andy Crestodina and Chris Penn like blew my mind of anybody there. Those two are just so darn smart and I'm in the analytics mode right now. So I think that was part of it but it was pretty cool. Shane: We've got Andy on the podcast and Chris is one of those, when you talk about analytics. I mean his last name should just be analytics with what he puts together and stuff. He's next level. I watch his videos and I go, God, I wish I was smart. I'm like, maybe one day, maybe just 1/10th of what Chris is. That'd be awesome. I'll take that if you can hear me Dear Lord, this is my one request for Christmas or Santa Claus or whoever can bring that this year. Awesome. So obviously, you guys have been putting on a lot of events and that's what I love about events because I've spoken at quite a few events is that I love, well first I like speaking but what I really enjoy is going and listening to everybody else, writing, pulling those little nuggets from the other presenters that I've known for a long time and it's like, oh I forgot about that. Oh that's something new. I mean that's like my favorite part is I was just in St Louis for MDMC, which is like the big conference they have in the Midwest and I spoke out there but I got there, wasn't speak until Thursday. I got there on Monday because I wanted to like go to the whole conference and check it out and obviously eat as much barbecue as I physically possibly could, which I did. Good shot by the way, see the arches or arch and all that kind of fun stuff. It was fun. I definitely enjoy that. You leave with all these notes and you're like damn there's so much of this basic stuff that I totally forgot about and some new stuff that I have to implement and then I get to go back to my team and my whole team's like, Oh God, here we go. Is going to be one week of Shane's new bright ideas on everything we have to implement in this next week. Cathy McPhillips: Especially when you're doing things like changing your podcast or doing something where you're like, oh my gosh, I know this stuff but it worked when I was doing all my blog, but now I'm doing this whole new thing. I've got to kind of start over a little. Shane: Yeah, it is. It's is one of those things you have to, for me I look at it and go, okay, I can't go too crazy. I have to take little pieces of this, what can I implement that's not too crazy? because my poor team. I got like 30 something team, they're all remote so I have a good sized team but they know when I come back from these conferences, they be like one of my main guys be like braces himself. He's like, alright, so what did you learn? Like what do we have to do differently? What do we have to add to? and I go, it's not too bad. It's only 10 pages of notes and it'll be fine. I'll just give you and then like three hours later he's like, I don't even know why I partnered with you at this point, you want to do all this new stuff. All fun stuff though and we all get it done. So it's all good but, so what would be like--this is kind of a hard question. What is your favorite social media platform for marketing? Is there like a platform that you guys use or that you use or are you usually with your clients or whatever where you go? This is like something that I can't live without, is there one platform that you can think of that you're like, that's it. Like that's the one Cathy McPhillips: I love Twitter. I feel like a lot of people don't but I really do. For business I feel like I like Twitter the best. LinkedIn is drawing on me again. Personally, I love Instagram but from a business stand point I feel like Twitter and LinkedIn are better for us. Shane: It is funny, I'm a fan of Twitter as well. I probably haven't been as responsive over the last probably year in the past but I do enjoy. I spent a lot of time in a lot of and I guess a lot of resources into Twitter and I've always really enjoyed Twitter. I just haven't been doing it as much as I think I would like to. I'm sure my numbers are down in regards to like engagement and stuff but I do enjoy Twitter. I think it's a little crazy out there but I think I kind of enjoyed that and when you kind of filter things out and kind of, you can have some great conversations because that's where everybody's talking. So it's like that ongoing fast conversation of where you can find out a lot of cool stuff. I think like the Twitter, I know we used to use a lot of the we're like putting the list together, which I think was always underused by a lot of people of like when I would go to conferences, we would add them on Twitter, on these lists, and then we can kind of continue to engage with them. So they remember who you were. So there were these little touch points, which I thought was kind of cool. So, I'm a fan of Twitter as well but like anything else, it's like you just got to figure out where you're going to spend your time. It's like there's so many. Now, there's so many platforms and tech talk and this and that and the other. It's just gets to a point where you're like, I just got to control a few of these things and build a nice little audience here and pull them back to the website somehow and get them to the conference and let them know where I'm speaking and when my books coming out and all this and when the podcast coming out and just drive that traffic. So always interesting. So cool. So, what do you think when it comes to, so you're talking about obviously Twitter and then LinkedIn is starting to grow on you. What do you think the change has been in LinkedIn? Like why is it starting to grow on you? I mean I can tell you what I think and it's probably something that's happened in the last few years but why is LinkedIn start to grow on you? Is that something you guys use at CMI a lot or is it just for you as an individual? Cathy McPhillips: Both, but I think as a business and for CMI for our event, I really love if I'm trying to target somebody with a paid message, there is nothing better than LinkedIn. I mean I can target down to the company which is pretty phenomenal. It is expensive but you get what you paid for. I think that's really cool. I'm running tons of tests right now with various companies versus job titles versus geography, doing all these different things. I can go in there every few days, optimize it, test different ads and it's fun. It's been really good for us. People keep telling me like all I see is your ads. I'm like, yes. Don't click, don't click on them. If you know you’re coming, don't click, Shane: That's right. Cathy McPhillips: But that's been really good for us and I keep changing groups. We've got a pretty robust 50,000 folks in our LinkedIn group and I couldn't moderate the discussion. You couldn't do that, you couldn't do this and it was a little frustrating at first as a moderator, even though I'm not the one that does it day to day. I only know Agnus Martine does that but she'll call me and she's like, oh my gosh, this group, they keep changing things and there's so much spam but we just changed our group actually in the past 18 months where if you post a method, just a link to your website, to a blog or anything has a link actually. Anything that doesn't engage conversation, we delete your posts. So our entire group is all questions or conversations. It's amazing and one of the few groups that actually have people coming back saying, thank you. It's a lot of work. Every single day going in there and deleting stuff and slowly LinkedIn starting to recognize what we're accepting, what we're not accepting. So they're kind of doing it for us, which is really nice and cut down a lot. We have some really good discussions in there and just from my standpoint of looking for how to market to our audience, our editorial team of looking at, what discussions are happening in there. Our programming team for the event is looking at what names are coming up a lot. So things like that, but it's not analytics, it's not digging into GA or Adobe or anything like that. But those anecdotal conversations and we're seeing. Mo will say, oh my gosh, this post, somebody asked a question on this and it blew up. It's all about ROI. Can we cover this on the blog? Or this person is answering everyone's questions, are they speaking at our event. So it's really good for us, social listening is just so important as much as we have all this data... listening to it socially is really important for us. It's a great place. Shane: Yeah. It doesn't get any better than that. I've had like fitness influencers that we've accrued in Facebook groups and stuff like that and it's funny, a lot of the potential eBooks, or anything that we would create was due to what people were talking about in the group, right? You would find out what was hot and what people wanted to know about and this, that and the other, and then you create content around that. So it sounds like you guys do the same thing. I mean you have really this test group, not test group but I mean it's like this group of people that are talking about stuff and naturally they're going to, and you see what people are talking about or they're not talking about or I didn't, I thought about the other side of it is who's answering the questions and seems to know what they're talking about. We should have them come speak, not just I need to be in your forum more and I need to answer more questions, which is good to know, mental note. Cathy McPhillips: And I'd be remiss, Moe would not be happy if I didn't mention that we started a slack group also. So she's been, and I don't slack, I haven't really gotten into it yet. Partly because she does such a good job of doing it that I don't have to, but a lot of those same conversations are starting over there for those folks who aren't really interested in the LinkedIn group. Shane: Yeah, I've done, I've belonged to quite a few slack groups and once again, they can either be just super phenomenal and great information or sometimes they can, just depends on how they're developed and who's moderating and who's putting it on. But I do have two slack groups that are like over the top. Like I just know that I couldn't live without them but they're just awesome. Like once again, very engaging people, everybody's helping everybody. You can produce, promote content and do all kinds of stuff that everybody kind of knows where they're supposed to promote stuff and do stuff. So if done correctly, slack, I think like that those groups can be absolutely crazy phenomenal but it takes a curator and somebody that knows how to like corral all the cats right and get everybody in this position, do this and don't do this and don't do this. Once you get the community listening and once they actually do what you say, then it becomes easier. But in the beginning it's definitely, it's probably in the beginning it's more like curling drunk cats. Like I don't know if cats get drunk but I'm just seeing this picture of these cats that are, if they did drink a lot then I think that's what it would be like. I'm assuming that's what it would be like. Awesome. So you obviously are a huge fan of Twitter. Do you like a secret recipe on creating like content for Twitter or what have you learned over the years? Because obviously you enjoy it. Do you use it more for personal or business or both or like what's your strategies there? Cathy McPhillips: Pretty much only business. I mean, I'll have conversations, personal conversations with people I know pretty much through content marketing world or through CMI. I think back in 2013 before that, the first event I attended for CMI, we started the Twitter chat 10 weeks prior to the event just to see, just to basically more of a promotional tool. I told Joe, let's try it for 10 weeks. If it flops, then let's just stop it after the event. We'll just, 2 1/2 months and at the event people are coming up to me saying, what's next week's topic? I'm like, oh, okay, I guess we're going to keep doing this and it's still going. We're surprised, it lasted six years in. It's amazing and a lot of people have turned over a little bit. Some people have been there from the very beginning. Every week we have these discussions with, we have special guest, special topics but more often than not, like next week we're actually having just a community chat and we're just kind of see how it goes. Our community carries the chat. I mean the guest is great and the topic is great but ultimately it's the hundred some people who shop every single week talk to each other and just share success stories or have you tried this or oh my gosh, I tried this new tool. If you looked into it, it's free trial or whatever the case may be. A lot of us work from home, so it's really nice to talk to a human every now and then even if we're doing it online but that's been really good for us. I think one of the things we've done really well, we've done lots of crummy things too but one of the things I think we've done really well is we've carried that family hashtag not only in our Twitter chats and through our events, but we'll use it every single day, all year long. So the community weeks are Tuesday at noon, eastern Twitter chats, quick plug to our events and everything in between for blog post. Somebody asked me a question about something and it just kind of had a life of its own. So it's been really good for us but people might see it on Tuesday or see it on a random blog post and say, oh, what's this Hashtag? and they're going to find out about it. So it's not like we have our four days together in Cleveland every year but we stay in touch to help plan… But every single day throughout the year, whenever we want to reach out to one another. Now, it's grown into something pretty spectacular. Shane: Yeah, that's cool. That's kind of like the slack groups that I've seen with that is once you build something like that is awesome. In the beginning I've seen like where you have some that we're a part of. At the beginning you'd see the moderators having to talk a lot and then you get to a point where everybody's just talking and that's what's awesome about it, is once it's taken on its own life. It sounds like that's what the Twitter chats have done is like, like obviously the guests are great but at the end of the day it's the 50 hundred or those people that are actually having a conversation and interacting back and forth where the magic really happens. Where I'm thinking like you had that interaction where it's like people look forward to, as you said, when people ask you at conferences or hey, what are we talking about next week? I think it's kind of interesting to see. I remember when I first heard about Twitter chats, I was like gosh I don't know if I really get it and then all of a sudden I jump in one or I'm a guest of one and then all of a sudden it's like, wow, okay. So, it's like this swarm of bees that come in and have this great conversation and I'll send an hour later they're gone. It's like, wow, that was kind of crazy. It's like a care bear stare. So that's awesome. Cathy McPhillips: One thing, when I started when we had webinars. Our hashtag for webinars were #CMI and then we're talking about should we do a year on top of our CM World, 13, 14, 15. I'm like no, get everything the same because CMI has different meanings. At least the CMIWorld, we pretty much own that hashtag every now and then you'll see it come up with something random but apparently #CMI also means can't make it. So we were like following it on a tweet chat or tweets back and was like what is this? I'm like oh okay. So that's one thing funny about hashtags is you just need to figure out, because I mean could it mean anything else? So we've kind of just said anything across the board even though our webinars don't really revolve around our event, they revolve around our community and that's what's most important to us. Shane: Yeah. How big is you guy’s team? Cathy McPhillips: There are 22 of us. Shane: Okay. It's just interesting cause I'm always interested to see the impact that a team makes and how many people are behind it. Sometimes I'm shocked, sometimes I am like, oh I thought you had more people, use you guys as an example, like CMI has a huge footprint, right? I mean huge footprint because you're putting on events and you're doing a lot of, and obviously Joe's books and stuff like that. I think you guys have made a huge impact, especially in the content space but I think in other spaces as well, which is interesting. I was just kind of curious on how many people we had on the team. Cathy McPhillips: Well, that doesn't include all abroad contributors, our event team, we have lots of people to help us but our core group is 22 right now. Shane: Got you. Got you. Cathy McPhillips: We're virtual and people don't know that. They're like, wait, you work from home, like oh yeah. We had Joe's upstairs, his conference table for a little while but we're all at home workers and we ranged from Robertson LA, we had some team members in Boston and we have everything in between. Most of the, a lot of us or half the team is here in Cleveland, so we're pretty spread out as well. Shane: That's awesome, I know the same of my team. I had a company many moons ago that it was 130 people and then we were all in one building and that was like crazy and I told myself I would never do that again. I was like, I do not want to have 130 people in the same building with me being in charge of that, so now my whole team's is all over the world. I liked that 24-hour cycle of like things need to get done and you have people that wake up and they can get it done and then wake up the morning and then I hand it to a client. They're like, I don't know how you got that done when you were supposed to be sleeping and I'm like I don't know, secrets. I can't tell you either. We just get stuff done. Okay, just know that, that we're going to be on top of it. So what have you seen like in regards to Twitter like that receives the highest engagement because obviously you guys have done a lot, number of different things. I mean obviously not like on the Instagram and it's like yeah, you put a picture, get some engagement but videos seem to do really well. The same thing on Facebook. The video thing seems to be kind of a big. Have you seen like on Twitter, have you seen anything that you're like, oh that seems too, and I know it constantly changes because of algorithms and stuff like that, but is there anything that has historically done really well for you guys when it comes to like engagement on Twitter? Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, Moe has done a really good job of playing around with a bunch of different things. She'll take one blog post and she'll run it with just text in the link. She'll do one with the Twitter card, she'll do one where if there's a video she corresponds to it and she'll upload the raw video and she's tried all of it. The picture does the best, video is doing well but just text by itself. She's kind of put out with it and it's just not the best for her but I think what we've noticed is like with our speakers, with other things that we're doing, if we have, our editorials director, she's sending out an email to a block contributor saying the postage running tomorrow, here's some pre-written tweets, here's an image you can use, here's the link you can use so we can track it back to you and your assistants in this. Shane: We do that with our content marketing world speakers as well. Here's a link to your session. Here is your personalized discount code and we are handing this nice packet of information to our contributors and to our helpers. So we need their help and if we're asking for their help, we better be preparing them with something that we're not going to have them have to spend how much time working? We don't want them to work too hard to help us. So we try to make it as neat and as package and they can edit it and make changes till their hearts content but if they can't, we have it ready for them. So I think that's really good from the amplification and distribution standpoint to use the resources that we already have and that's been really beneficial for us and make it a no brainer. I mean that's the thing is because people are, I mean that's the thing is if you want them to help you and support what you've got going on, you need to give them the tools, you need to give them the stuff. We've realized that but back in the day when we would have extra roundups or whatever we would do like, God, nobody seems to be sharing it. It's like, well, but then when we started sending them banners that were already made and do this and put this here and put this there, then we saw obviously a higher increase in the amount of people are doing that cause it's a no brainer. I can either click this, I can copy this, I can tweak this a little bit. Oh we already have a banner made. So, they don't necessarily want to tap into their resources cause they're already busy with their own stuff. So if you make it easy, Cathy McPhillips: I think I've also seen that they'd rather have us do that than have us, say we do a roundup post on content marketing world. There's 15 speakers that we pull the quote or something from, they'd rather have us send them an email saying you're in this post and here's some information versus us tagging all of them on LinkedIn. We're trying to avoid, stick with the personal. You're like my feed is already busy enough. I don't need someone tagging me in some posts even if it's completely relevant and I'm in it but be consider it and I think us giving them the tools, there's a lot easier than us blasting them and then making them like, why did you do that? Shane: I might be guilty of that potentially. I'm not going to plead fully guilty, Cathy McPhillips: But like one person or two people I think is okay but when you're doing like 50 at one time, that's when I think it gets a little bit... So don't do that. Shane: I'll try not to. I'll tell the team, okay, we got to quit doing that. This is code red, dammit I knew we were doing something wrong this week and now I've figured it out. That's Awesome. Let's talk about like the content marketing techniques. Is there anything that you've seen, like let's say 2019, 2020? some cool stuff that's coming along that you're like, if you're a content marketer or you're a brand, like this is something you should really take a look at. Is there anything new and riveting that you've seen over the last year or two? Or is it all kind of like, hey, it's all about putting out great content and the amplification of it and distribution of it? Cathy McPhillips: I think a couple of things. One, I'm so big in the podcast right now. So that's like my favorite thing in the world. I go for a walk around every day. I listen to some podcast and I just walked down the street and I laughed. Like right now I'm listening to Conan O'Brien's podcast, which is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life but I listen to a lot of marketing ones also. Oh my gosh, it's hysterical. I love audio because we can listen to it in so many different ways, while were cooking or working or walking or running or whatever we're doing is sitting in our car but it's just something we can do with so many other things that we're doing and I think it's really great and there some really solid podcasts coming out. Shane: But… like, how do you stand out? How can you differentiate? Cathy McPhillips: My second thing is if you aren't producing something that's amazing every single day, then stopped publishing every single day. Drop to once a week or drop something that you know, I think that's where we're going to see this year, next year we should have already seen that actually is people that are just pushing out content for content sake are not going to be around that long because there's so much stuff out there that you have to do something to differentiate yourself. I mean changing the name of your podcast I think is brilliant because it stands out. If you know what it is and it's different. It's not just content, it's something bigger, something that's you. If you as a person that people identify with you versus just some content term. So I'm making those connections. Shane: Yeah. For us, it really was. I like continent converged, but I just also didn't want to be pigeonholed into just talking about content because a lot of the podcasts in the beginning I'll be honest, my team was like hey listen, I listen to the whole hour podcast and there's only a few tips that I can get from a marketing perspective and I go, yeah, but I want a podcast where I'm talking to people. People are human, give me your background, your family. I want to kind of get to know the individual. I mean, podcasts are hard to like give, like here goes 50 tips that you need to write down and go do. You should get some good stuff in the middle of it but, so that's why I thought, you know what, I don't want it to be just about that. I want it to be because I'm a little bit of a smart Alec. I'd like to have some fun and I mean I've had conversations about meth with somebody, like not doing meth but just like somehow we were joking around about meth and so there's like these weird little conversations that you listen to you. Like how did you guys even get on that? I don't know. It has nothing to do with content, last time I checked. I don't think meth and content go together that I know of. I don't know but anyways, so it's like these weird conversations that I would have with people still once again, I get a lot of emails afterwards and people like, God, that was a great interview. Thank you so much. Which for me, I was like, oh it's, cause I, I try not to be, I don't want to be just real like, oh let's talk about content. Like, oh Yay. Tell me about your content. Like, oh it's just super not exciting at all. Like I want some, do you want to listen to you? and I enjoy listening to you and say, oh, it's kind of fun and then I got a few good things out of it and I don't know. I try to do things a little differently and hopefully that will make us win in the end or I guess we'll find out here soon. Cathy McPhillips: Right. Well a couple of years ago and we were doing, we were having a little bit of a low in our webinar attendance and we were doing a lot of the same things we'd done years prior when it was really doing well. So one of the topics was just kind of, hmm, okay. We couldn't figure out, our webinar team called and said what are we doing? What can we be doing differently? I'm like, did you tell them who is the guest? Because if you tell them that, I forget who it was, but if you tell him it was Jay Baer, it doesn't matter what the topic was. People are going to show up. So focused on the person, not about the topic. We could all talk about these topics, good or bad, but if you tell them the face behind it, name behind it. My gosh, that's what people care about. You know if Jay Baer is talking about something, you're going to listen. It going to be good or funny or entertaining or something. You may not learn something absolutely brilliant every single time, but you'll learn something and he'll keep you engaged and entertained Shane: And his suits for God's sake because you know he's going to come out flagrant. He just going to come out there and you're like, man, what's going on there? Kudos, shout out to Jay. That guy, I love that guy. Cathy McPhillips: He's the best. Shane: He is a cool cat for sure. So rumor has it that you might be working on a book. Are the rumors true? Cathy McPhillips: In my head? Shane: Oh, don't be modest with me. Dammit. Tell us about your book. I know you got something going on you. I know how you are. You're a go getter. Don't. This isn't just a little idea that you thought of. You got a few notes on it. You don't need to give us all the details, but give us a little premise here. Cathy McPhillips: Well, I don't know. I really honestly don't know because I've been wanting to do this forever. I put it on my 50 before 50 list at a time of things I have to do before I turned 50 obviously. I need at least a topic by then. I don't know. I talked to Joe Pulizzi about writing a book with him and he laughed at me, so that's not going to happen. He was like, Kathy and I kind of have like an imposter syndrome. What would I do if people really care about that I could write on with expertise. So I don't know. Something. Shane: It's hard, I'm telling you. I've talked about this with most of my guests. I've talked about doing a book. Honestly, if I had a dollar for every time I talked about me writing a book, I can just retire. Well I'd have at least a thousand dollars, maybe $2,000 we don't even know. My book is like D and that's why I was giving you a hard time about it. because it's like that the way I can reflect from me not writing my book and I've talked about doing my book and this and the other, but it's like the problem is I think, and this happens with clients. There's a lot of things but it is overthinking. It's like, hey, you have expertise. It's like whatever you come out with, you probably could get some sales and you've done all the stuff that I think will drive this, but it's just, I don't know, it's like just finalizing something as you want it to have an impact. You know? So I don't know. It is a little difficult and I've had... Actually I've talked to Andy Crestodina and he was like, how about this next time I talked to you Shane, like you're going to have to tell me that you have chapter one or two and I've just avoided him. Now I can't talk to Andy. So if Andy's listening to this and that interview was the last time I'll ever talk to Andy Crestodina. Unfortunately, because I think he's an awesome guy, but I'm going to have to avoid him like an ex-girlfriend because I don't know or come up with some chapters and I could look him in the eyes like a grown man and say, hey, we're good. I did what I told you I was going to do and you know, put that in your pipe and smoke it. Like now we're good. Like there you go. We're good. Cathy McPhillips: So maybe we should write a book together and just make everyone happy. Shane: There we go. I mean if we get two procrastinators that come in together. I mean there's some magic that happened. Either that or we're just going to look at each other and go, I mean maybe, I don't know. Cathy McPhillips: I don't know. Shane: What would you want to write about? Cathy McPhillips: I don't know. What do you want to do? Shane: I don't know. What do you want to do? Cathy McPhillips: I know one, it's funny because it's like the premise of like putting stuff together and I'm not a bad writer. You're a journalist. I have writers on my team. It shouldn't be difficult, like it really should be like, hey, this is what we need to do. I can come up with whatever it is. I don't know, I think if, probably this point my listeners are like, I'm just so tired of him talking about that book that he's not going to write. How about this? I promise I'm going to write this book before I die. How about that? The cool part about it is even if I die, nobody going to give me a hard time whether I came out the book or not. Which is kind of a little sick and twisted on a Monday, but I just figured it out it's a lot of information for you guys. All right, I tried to do that right at the end just to kind of throw people off. So like Jesus is he's serious. Does he want to die? No, I'm good. I'm actually really happy. So we're going to go on an extremely lighter note of death and Hashtag and books. So you do a lot of stuff like nonprofits like you do. I know I saw some of the different organizations that you were a part of. Like tell me a little bit about that. Tell us about the little, the personal side of Cathy. Shane: Oh, okay. I was in the restaurant marketing space for a number of years. And I was at an event in Dallas with the company called people report and it was a service sector and just industry event and Billy shore who founded share our strength, which is branded, no kid hungry, was up on stage talking about his organization. And I just sat there in awe about what he was doing. Are you familiar with Cathy McPhillips: no, no. No. Shane: Okay. So Billy and his sister went on a mission trip to a third world country and while they were there, ambitious, like such the abbreviated version of the story. But while they were there, they were just shocked by the hunger that they had seen and I thinking back, they're like, we want to solve world hunger. And I'm like, oh hey, let's be real. Let's be realistic. People tried it before, it's not working. So they said, okay, let's try and figure out what can we do. So let's focus on hunger in the United States. So still pretty big, let's focus on children, hungry children and they kept whittling it down to like, what can we really make work? Cathy McPhillips: We really make a difference and they are focusing on children in school because they figured they could get access to, there's systems in place and things like that and that's their strength to share. That's why it's the company share our strength. So they are working on school breakfast programs where every child has access to school breakfast because there are studies that show, I mean it's very logical but there are studies that show that if you come to school with any beaten breakfast you're going to be that much more successful. You'll be focused and paying attention and you'll just do better. Backpack programs for weekends or for snow days, summer meal programs. So they have done so much. It's absolutely amazing. So when I was working social media work for them for a number of years and I created this social council with a few of us created the Social Council where we found people in the community that were active on social media that we're big followers, that they were kind of like, okay, if we were going to activate something on social, whether it was a giving Tuesday promotion or something else, we were going to this group saying, okay, here's our plan. What could we do differently that would make more sense in the social media landscape. You have people come in and out and say, we'll do this or do this or what can we do? So we have the group of 50 people right now that whenever time there's activation, we have this group ready to roll. So since I've transitioned out of the role of working on the business, I'm now on the Social Council. So I'm doing that. That's one thing. One of my friends amber, who lives in town with me, she is a social worker and she started a company or a nonprofit a 1 1/2 ago called Community of Hope and they're in Cleveland and she helps children who age out of foster care get on their feet. And so really interesting model where she, right now there's about 44 young adults that are being helped and they're, every young adult is connecting with six or seven adults and these are these six or seven adults meet with this one child once a week for an entire year. When you commit, you commit to one hour a week for a year, which I think is phenomenal. People will dedicate that time and it's not, we're not giving you money. We're not enabling you, but you know you're looking for a job in banking. I know someone who is in banking, let me connect you or you need to access to this, let me help you. But it's not free, It's not handouts. It's not, oh we feel sorry for you. It's, we want to help you, enable you to do, to do good to stay on your feet and it's only 44 people so far. But I say phenomenal but no one's homeless. No one's incarcerated. You know everyone's doing really well. You know there are certainly, there are lots of hiccups along the way and things come up but what she does one on one attention that she's getting and she has county support. I'm on the boards of her organization actually seeing her tomorrow and then Joe Glitzy started a nonprofit with Pam, his wife, Orange effect foundation. They have a now 16-year-old who when he was 18 months old, they diagnosed him with autism and because they had the means he got really early intervention and now he's a thriving high school student who is a class leader. He's really smart kids, active in a bunch of different things because he got helped when he was young. So they're trying to give children access to families, access to therapy and devices that they otherwise couldn't have access to. So I'm on the board of that. So a lot of time, a lot of could but totally worth it. Shane: That's awesome. It's funny though, when you talk about the foster kids...so my dad was a counselor but he's also president of the Teacher's Association and he since is retired, but he does the same thing, but he has to do it through the court system. So they'll appoint, I can't remember the name of what they call and they appoint him but anyways, my dad gets appointed and he'll have a foster child every year that he goes and takes him out. I don't know if it's once a week but it'll go and take a baseball games and take them here and help them like just stuff. So he's really, really enjoyed that retirement because he was before, he was obviously very interactive with kids and was very proactive with making sure to help people. The foster system is really, you get to a certain point in that you just drop off, like you're off the radar. Like nobody, they don't care, but you're just not getting the exposure that, or not getting the type of support that you would as it like a young kid would or something like that. You get to a certain point, it was like, you’re out of the womb and it just like, okay, but that doesn't mean I'm still ready. You know? It's like I haven't, maybe there's a lot of things that still need to happen support wise. So That's interesting. Yeah. Cathy McPhillips: And these kids are all like, when you're turning 18 this county, like, okay, we're done. Shane: You're done. Yeah. My responsibility is done which is a hard one cause a lot of them aren't ready still at that point. I mean I wasn't, I had a great family. I wasn't ready at 18 for, I mean I still need a little support there, if you know what I mean. Alright, so this is going to be, this is the big question. This is the one that just floors people usually. So I think you're going to be ready for this one. So if there was one hashtag that describes you best because I know you're a big hashtag user, maybe a potential hashtag abuser but you tell me what would the hashtag be for Cathy? Like what would be like if they would say it's hashtag, I would say maybe big giver, but I don't know. I mean I'm not here to push either way. Cathy McPhillips: Well I wouldn't say that because I don't, like, I'm not a good assault promoter. I'm actually good at promoting other things besides myself so I would not make it about me. I probably would say CMIWorld because that's kind of like my world right now. Shane: There we go. Cathy McPhillips: And then I try to stay off social otherwise. I liked Instagram. I liked Instagram a lot but I've kind of been down on Facebook a little bit and I don't really tweet personal stuff. So really I guess I would say CMWorld is my answer. Shane: That's your finally, what's your final answer? You don't have to call anybody or anything. That's good. That's good. I feel like that's a strong answer. Another thing is I went to go add you on Instagram and then you have it private, like what's up with that? Like why, I mean, can you not, can we not, can the whole world not know about what's going on in Cathy's life or is she trying to keep things secrets or what's the deal? I mean that's trying to, Cathy McPhillips: I will say two things. One, my kids are on there and two, I had a bad situation. Shane: Ah, there we go. That's it. So yeah, bad situation to go private. I'm trying to be a smart Alec and you're like, no, I had a real world situation Shane. Wow... Cathy McPhillips: Thanks Shane, thanks for bringing that up. Shane: Thanks for bringing up that on the podcast. This is what it looks like. We're going to have to edit out the last part again from Shane's podcasts. It's either talking about meth or situations that are uncomfortable, way to go, Shane, another successful podcast. Cathy McPhillips: It's all good. I'm over it. Shane: Good, good. Well, I'm glad you're glad you made it through. Cathy. You've been a doll. This was fun. Nice Fun hour of action and nothing but a good time. I'm really, really thank you for being on the podcast today. Cathy McPhillips: Thank you, it's been the fun. Shane: We'll talk soon. Okay.