Jeff Bullas is a marketing expert, blogger, keynote speaker, and best selling author. His website, JeffBullas.com receives more than 5 million visitors a year. Jeff Bullas was named as the #1 Global Content Marketing Influencer in 2018. He was also featured on Forbes as one of the Top 20 Influencers of Chief Marketing Officers in 2018. Besides marketing, he has keen interests in cycling and photography.
- How has content marketing changed over the years?
- Why is keeping track of trends important?
- Why is social media a double-edged sword?
- What is it like to become an influencer?
- What is it like to become an entrepreneur?
- What makes a good content marketing strategy?
[01:01] Jeff Talks About How He Switched Industries
[04:40] Jeff Reveals How He Came Up With His Blog
[07:25] Why Blogging is a Long-Term Game
[11:00] What’s Wrong With Our Education System?
[14:27] The Insta-Famous Fad
[19:08] Jeff’s Current Projects
[20:35] Jeff’s Take on What Life is About
[22:20] Why Sharing Your Creation Is Important
[29:28] Why Keeping an Eye On Trends is Important
[34:14] Why Instagram is Like Rental Property
[42:55] Best Softwares Content Marketing
[48:11] Jeff’s Upcoming Book
[49:58] Passion For Cycling
[54:24] What Would Jeff Do With $50K?
Content marketing has moved on from the early days when it was a novelty. Now, it’s a sought after strategy to grow businesses. In fact, in a study by the Content Marketing Institute, 91% of respondents said their organizations use content marketing.
Image via Content Marketing Institute
However, only 9% of marketers feel their organizations have a sophisticated content marketing strategy in place. It’s crucial to have a strategy to achieve your business goals. But not many marketers understand how to implement one.
In this article, let’s bridge the knowledge gap. Let’s take a look at the key pillars of content marketing.
1. Understand Your Audience
Just like all other forms of advertising, content marketing requires that you understand who your audience is. After all, you need to tailor your content to appeal to the sensibilities of your target audience.
To identify your target audience, it’s a good idea to take a look at the following factors:
Additionally, you should find out how your target audience spends their time online. Look for their preferred social media platform and which devices they use to surf the internet.
You can easily find this information using Google Analytics and other analytics tools for social media platforms.
Also, look at the kind of content they consume. It’ll give you an understanding of the kind of content that resonates best with them. Keep an eye on their likes, comments, and shares on different social media platforms.
Another way of finding out the kind of information your audience wants to consume is through feedback. You can understand their pain points through AMA sessions and online polls. Through the content that you create, attempt to resolve these problems.
2. Pick Your Content Type
Once you understand who your customers are and what they like to read, you can pick your content type. The kind of content you pick also needs to be aligned with your marketing goals.
If you want to boost your brand reputation, website traffic, and search engine rankings, blog posts work well. To add credibility to your brand and to drive awareness, case studies, ebooks, and guides are crucial.
However, if increasing engagement is your ultimate goal, you should look at more engaging content forms. Webinars and podcasts can provide a medium to communicate with your audience in a conversational way.
On the other hand, videos and social media posts can stir up a conversation around your brand. Additionally, they can even drive conversions. Quality infographics, memes, and podcasts can help make your brand relatable as well.
3. Research Your Keywords
To produce content that resonates with your audience, you first need to find out what your audience is looking for. Through keyword research, you can get new content ideas.
To find relevant keywords in your industry, you can use tools like KWFinder, SEMrush, and Ahrefs. These tools help you analyze the competition for each keyword. Based on how easy it is to rank for each keyword, you should select the ones you want to target.
Image via SEMrush
Another important factor to keep in mind is voice searches. Virtual assistants have changed the way we look for keywords. Long-tail keywords are gaining popularity as search queries are becoming more conversational.
Most marketers use keyword research widely for blog posts. However, regardless of the type of content you choose, keywords should be an integral part of your content marketing strategy.
By identifying the most popular keywords, you can generate more ideas for videos, webinars, and podcasts. Similarly, you can craft your hashtags based on the keywords that are trending.
4. Make a Content Schedule
It’s not tough to create a one-off great blog post. But, if you are in content marketing for the long run, you need to be consistent. Posting quality content regularly is the only way to make your brand memorable to your audience.
A content schedule is necessary to make sure you always have something to share with your audience. The first step is to list all of the topics you have zeroed in on.
Next, plan a timeline for publishing your content. Based on the type of content you’ve chosen, keep in mind how long it will take for you to produce it. Factor in the time taken to edit the content and set a realistic content publishing schedule. In addition to this, also set a plan for distributing your content on different platforms.
Maintaining consistency is crucial in creating anticipation among your audience. For a weekly podcast series, make sure you can plan your schedule such that you can publish an episode every week on the same day. As your series begins to garner interest, your audience will look forward to the day of the upload.
For a streamlined schedule, it’s a good idea to decide on the time of the schedule as well. The ideal way to decide the time is to look at your audience’s online activity. Sync your upload with the time when they are likely to be online for the best engagement.
5. Optimize Your Content
We’ve already discussed keyword research, which is a part of optimizing your content. However, that’s not all. You need to optimize your content more if you want to increase your visibility and provide a good user experience.
Here are some strategies that you should work on to optimize your content:
- For reading: Write short sentences and paragraphs to make reading your content easier. Use bullet points and sub-headings to make your content more scannable.
- For search engines: Use the best SEO strategies to make it easy for search engines to find and understand your content.
- For mobile devices: Make content mobile-friendly by writing short and snappy paragraphs. Additionally, ensure you have a lot of white space on your web page.
- For more conversions and traffic: Learn strategies for landing page optimization to get more conversions. For increased traffic, focus on SEO and content distribution.
6. Outline a Content Distribution Strategy
The success of your content marketing strategy depends heavily on how you distribute your content. On the internet, there are many businesses in your niche who are trying to get the attention of your target audience. So, it’s important for you to be able to cut through all of the noise on the web.
The easiest way to do this is to reach the right audience with your content. The fastest way to do it is to reach out through multiple mediums. However, that doesn’t mean you should aim to get on all distribution channels. Find out the social media platforms that your audience is most active on and focus on the most popular ones.
Another factor that is crucial for your content distribution strategy is the type of content you want to share. For instance, YouTube and Instagram can work well for videos while email newsletters or LinkedIn might be a better choice for blog posts.
To maximize your engagement and audience reach, market your content on different platforms. If needed, you can also repurpose your content to fit into different social media channels.
The content marketing landscape is changing rapidly. To beat your competitors, you need to focus on producing high-quality content consistently.
After that, invest some time into optimizing your content. It’ll help you increase brand awareness, generate leads, and drive conversions. Lastly, outline a solid strategy to distribute your content to reach a wider audience.
Can you think of any key pillars of a successful content marketing strategy? Let us know in the comments section below.
Shane Barker: Welcome to the podcast. I am Shane Barker, your host of Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness Podcast. I have with me Jeff Bullas, a successful digital entrepreneur, keynote speaker and bestselling author. Jeff was named one of the number one global content marketing influencers of 2008. He is a perfect fit for today's session on the best of content marketing. We'll discuss the key pillars of successful content marketing. Listen, as Jeff reveals, how important is to amplify the reach of your best content and also discover the secret sauce behind his exceptional success as a marketer. Really excited about having you on the podcast today, Jeff. Why don't you tell the audience, anybody who might not know about you, which I'm sure that's a very small percentage of people, hopefully that listen to the podcast. Where did you grow up? Give us a little background about Jeff. Jeff Bullas: I'm from Australia, so I speak with a strange accent. For some other people around the world it's an Aussie accent with a touch of English, I suppose, because I was raised in a little city called Adelaide, which wasn't settled by convicts, whereas Sydney was, which is where I now live. So, I grew up in Adelaide and then I had the fun stuff. You know, my dad had escaped but we had a lot of fun growing up as teenagers. I did my high school there. Then I did a teaching degree just near Sydney and New South Wales. That is, I suppose, the most popular state in Australia. I got into teaching and after I finished my teaching degree, I went and started to teach, and I quickly discovered it's something I really didn't enjoy. So, after five or six years of doing something I really hated going, and waking up, and going to every day. Yeah, the kids were great, but it was just, it wasn't me. So, I went and did a little bit of a career testing, I suppose. I went and tried three different jobs over my summer break from teaching. I discovered that I did a little bit of real estate selling. I did a little bit of insurance selling. Then I got into the tech industry. I sort of worked with a mate who was effectively doing a tech start-up back then. So, I went, “Wow, this whole tech thing feels rather exciting.” So that's how I sort of got into tech. It was a bit of a convoluted path and I really haven't left the technology industry very much for very long over the last 30 years. For me, I suppose my first introduction to trends in tech was when I left the tech industry. It was the PC revolution with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and the IBM PC and the Mac. It was pretty exciting times and I just, “Wow, this is so much fun.” And then in mid-1990s I started a communications business. We did a sort of structured cabling for commerce. Again, it was tech. I noticed the internet and web emerging in the mid-1990s, basically turning into public consciousness. I suppose that's what started to happen. We know that the internet started earlier than that. It started really gaining some momentum with the browser and Netscape back then. And so, I went, “Wow, this is fascinating. I see that I can get information anywhere, anytime.” And I started a consulting business around that as well. So that was the next sort of major trend point for me. I saw was going to transform business and transform industry and life. You know, you don't have to go to the library any more to get your information Shane Barker: Disruptive for sure. Jeff Bullas: But the real thing that really got me was around 2008 when I saw people using social media. I noticed people’s behaviour was quite obsessive back then and still is today. So, I went, “This is a powerful medium.” I said, “Well, I can actually put my content out there and without begging the gatekeepers. The media moguls are paying for it.” And so, in 2009 after observing that, and reading a few books…...I found that a very attractive idea after working in the corporate world where you shop nine to five. There, everything is structured. So, I suppose after a big streak of independence, I decided that I would read David Meerman Scott's book. The New Rules of Marketing and PR is the title of his book. I got to know David, actually. I liked the idea of writing content that will attract an audience to you. I was used to building businesses effectively by cold calling and knocking on doors. I did fax, broadcasting and lead gen using old tech and new tech. So, the idea that David thought of inbound marketing was something that really, really intrigued me. And then there's one little, I suppose, push or nudge for me to start the blog. And that was, I read a blog post by HubSpot. It said, when you have an inkling on what to start a business on, just start a blog. It’s what you want to write about. In March 2009, just over 10 years ago, I started Jeffbullas.com. That's like the path to what we're doing today. I became an online publisher and created content. I was just fascinated by this new media that people are obsessed with. Where there is obsession, there's power. And what I also loved about it was this intersection of humanity and technology. Social media has made it easy for us to use tech, and not only with social media. I suppose it created the perfect storm that has transformed businesses all around the world. It's transforming how we even live and how we consume content. It was the addition of the smartphone as Steve Jobs made it popular. So social media combined with the smartphone. We had basically a publishing machine in your pocket. That was the perfect storm that is a rippling through business and life. The implications for that is we move into AI and machine learning and getting the boring stuff done by machines. The next 40-50 years is basically just another bright human social experiment, really. It's fascinating. Shane Barker: Yes. It really is a crazy time. You think about how far it's come in just the last 15 years. I graduated from college in 2003 and the internet wasn't even in, sadly enough. I hope my son's not listening to this. I use like 0.01 percent of what I learned from college. I mean I graduated and none of it I can use. Everything I learned, I literally learned by going in and doing, and going in and figuring out. It’s kind of like the same way you did. It was like you just kind of say, “Hey, there's kind of some cool stuff going on over here.” The accessibility is when you look at the iPhone and you look at the fact that you can get anything. I mean it's pretty, crazy when you think about the world. I was just telling my son and his friends. This was just a few weeks ago. I was like, you know, making money is easy because now you have access to the whole world. It has absolutely changed things. You don't have to be a social media influencer and have a million followers. You could have a small audience and make a good amount of money online. It's just kind of crazy, the accessibility and how easy it is and the knowledge. When you got started, there weren't tons of blogs to go out and read and do this and do that. I mean it was very limited, right? I started my blog probably seven or eight years ago and there was some good content. But now, it's like it's a fire hose, right? I Now, there are all kinds of people. Somebody like yourself has been doing it for ten plus years. It's nice where you get the good domain authority and you've got some good traffic. You can monetize it, so you're getting to a good place. Jeff Bullas: Yeah, you've got to apply the long game and that's what a lot of people don't. If they don't get traffic after two or three blog posts they go, “Well, this is a waste of time.” But it's the long game. You've got to apply it. So, it's persistence. I love the quote by Bill Gates. He says that most people overestimate what they can do in one year. They underestimate what they can do in ten years. That is the reality, especially. You build domain authority with search engines that create more content with big reads. More sites link to you. The reality is that it takes time to build that up. Like these, you see certain merchants saying, “I can get you on page one in one week or two weeks.” And you're going, “Okay. Well, good luck with that.” So, the reality is that it is a long game. But once you've built that authority over time, then things get a lot easier. Shane Barker: Yeah, use my side as an example. I think probably within the last two years, maybe a year and a half, we've really seen a huge transition. It's like almost anything that we write about, we can get it on the first or second page. It wasn't always that way. Right? Originally, you're just writing about stuff and then it starts to become keyword driven. Then you have to go and optimize it, and you've got to redo it. You know what I mean? There are these processes that you go through. Then, there is finally a certain point where Google comes and gives you a little kiss on the cheek. Then, you realize, “Hey, I'm in.” Now it's like I'm starting to index well, and things are going well. As long as you do things obviously on the up and up, I think it helps. Like I said, you starting it 11 years ago. It was a great time, right? There are lots of things that have changed, but you're known as one of the originators, so it's awesome. Jeff Bullas: Yes, I think in a sense timing is everything in business. So, we're not everything but it's a majority. I think I saw a presentation; a TED Talk. I can't remember his name, but it had studied 200 companies. The number one difference for success wasn't how much money they had or connections. It was basically what was their timing like in the market. It was a 45% factor as opposed to the other four. Those were in the twenties or thirties and less. So, timing can be important. You do get a jump on that. That's why for me, keeping an eye on what trends are emerging is, important. It doesn't mean you chase every shiny new toy. I think that's something that we can all get trapped into, especially with the shiny new toys on social media. There is an interesting new social network started. One is based out of China. It has got its own implications for security but for everyone in the western world. It’s called TikTok and it was only started in 2016. It's got 500 million plus users. Shane Barker: Crazy. Yeah. It's the fastest growing platform ever. I mean, it's insane. Jeff Bullas: Yes. I have looked at demographic sites full of teenagers doing lip synching and pranking. So, it’s pretty superficial, but it can be addictive. And I can see that, even not being a teenager, I can see how addictive it could be. That's fascinating. I had heard of TikTok before. Basically, it's very much about the power of video which we all know is important. I’m on the board of a start-up; eight years into a start-up called Shadow Rock. We do Facebook video ads. For us to keep an eye on what's happening in the Facebook video space is important. Shane Barker: It’s important. Yeah, for sure. So, when you said you were a teacher, what level did you teach? Was it at high school? Jeff Bullas: Yes, I taught high school. So, in my last year of teaching I was teaching senior school. I was teaching economics which wasn't a subject that excited me. The other thing is that I struggled a little bit as a schoolteacher. I was teaching a lot of things that weren't necessary for life. It's the system imposing on the schools what they should be teaching. And yes, you've got to learn the basics. You have got to do math. You have got to learn to write. You've got to learn to read. But I think some of the life skills that are important. As parents, we should be teaching of course. The reality is that school should be part of that whole learning ecosystem to help build life skills. I just really felt that, and even today, that's very often not covered in the curriculum. Shane Barker: Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's part of it. My dad was in education as well and so you kind of see this. There are some kids that you can teach certain things and there are some that you don't need to. There are other ways to create that. I think what you're saying is that there's a better way of teaching, right? Not everybody needs every single piece of curriculum that we’re going to teach them. In fact, there can be a better way. There's a better use of their time. I think with some they gather stuff. Of course, that's always up for debate, right? Jeff Bullas: Yeah, and we are learning how to use online education as well. We’ve got the rollout of what people can learn so easily by just YouTubing. Just pop it into your chip. How do I do this? How do I do that? How do I learn a guitar, and all of that.? You're talking about teaching and education. You’re dealing with a system that's been around for a hundred plus, 150 years, 200 years. The reality is that change is going to be generations. So, despite the promise of online education still, we're all social creatures, right? So, the new premium's going to be human contact. I'm fascinated to see what's going to unfold over the next few decades. Shane Barker: Yes. There has been a lot of funding in online education, but I think we're still far out. I mean it's because, once again you talked about the human interaction, human touch. That’s going to be the thing that's going to be rare, right? It's going to become more digitized. You're going to have more of this and more of your phone. It's kind of crazy the amount of information that's accessible these days. Like I said, it's almost too much, you know what I mean? You can learn anything online. Back in the day, if I were to start a business 20 years ago, how would I do it? Online, I have no problem. This is what you do, and this is how we build it. We do this, and we'll do this. I mean, I have stages to it. But I'm talking about maybe knocking on doors. I did that early on. I was selling stuff when I was young, like new subscriptions and that kind of stuff. I kind of cut my teeth there. I'm just trying to think of how you did a business 30 years ago or 40 years ago? For me, I'm so tied into the digital age. Now, if I asked my son, he would like, “What do you mean? They had internet probably 50 years ago.” And I'm like, “No, they didn't. This is a new thing. I mean, this is still the infancy stages.” It's kind of great and it's kind of crazy. Jeff Bullas: Yes, exactly. It is a huge social experiment in terms of watching kids that want to be insta-famous. They think they can make money out of it. For me, that is a little concerning. They think that they can have it by being beautiful in beauty products. They think they can have it having a fabulous body or a house. They think they can have it by a sort of insta-famous Kim Kardashian type content. I am just not interested in that type of content. The younger generation are certainly in that space. Some people are going to do very well out of that, but the reality is that is very superficial. And how that impacts people's thinking about life…… So social media cuts two ways. I think it can lead to superficial wanting of attention through to creating distribution. That's great to change the world. Shane Barker: Yeah. To awareness. Jeff Bullas: Yeah. I think that's kind of a scary thing. I teach a class at UCLA, like personal branding and how to be an influencer. I have a class. When you say that it's very funny because of the students that I get at UCLA. It’s not all of them. If they're listening, I love you guys. The different levels of what people think are the reasons why they're looking to be an influencer. They want to work with brands or something like that. So, there are these levels of some people just looking at what makes money, right? Some people want to work with these brands. Everybody has their different reasons for it and some of it is very superficial, right? Especially in the LA area there can be some. “Hey mom, I didn't make it as an actor, but now I can be an influencer.” Right? So, it keeps their dreams alive, I guess. I don't know. It's interesting to say the least. I enjoy teaching the course. It reminds me of telling you that when I went to college. One of the classes that I took was how to be an entrepreneur, right? It was an entrepreneurship class. And it was like the only one. I remember going in there. I had already owned my own businesses when I went to college. When I finished college, I took me ten years to finish college because I just was kicking and screaming. I wanted to go do everything else and travel and go have fun. Finally, at the end of this thing, and I remember the teacher and everybody in the class. They were saying, well yeah, I want to be an entrepreneur because I want to own my own business. I can travel and go have fun so I can make all the money. And I remember thinking in my head like, “You have no idea what it takes to run a business. I guess not. You go open your business and then three months later you're out on the golf course with your buddies drinking beer and drive around…” I remember one of the funniest things that I heard was somebody says, “Well, I want to be my own boss.” The teacher says, “If you own your own business, you'll never be your own boss.” Everybody that comes in that restaurant or comes into your place is your boss. They're going to come tell you how to do things. This is what you need to change. I have a complaint here. And so, it was interesting because the perception is the same thing with an influencer, right? You think the influencer life is the way to go. I've got my little pink puppy. I eat caviar, I just travel in jets, helicopters picked me up and that's the life, right? That's what it is. And even then, you have to question it. Okay, let's say that is the life, but is that really the life? I mean, it's all perception, with the way you’re seeing people. On Instagram it is very obviously lifestylish, right? You look at it and you're like, “Oh, this is this,” and that way you want to tap into that. And that, keeping the dream alive, is what people want to tap into. That's what I want to do. I want the pink dog and I want the caviar and I want, you know, and psych. I don't know. It's funny. I used to think about this when I look at other entrepreneurs. And I go, “Oh, it'd be great to travel around on planes and in hotels.” And I'll be honest, I hate hotels. I don't hate hotels. But I've been in so many of them in a row of consulting gigs. I would go for months at a time. There's a certain point when I'm like, “God, it's nice to have a home cooked meal. I don't want to go out to eat.” You know, it's hard to get that cadence just because I've been to so many hotels. I remember as a kid. If we went to a hotel, I was losing my mind that we’re at a hotel. It was like having your room and you can go have food. And it's like, man, you just put it on the room. We didn't do that too much because mom wasn't super excited about that. But you get my point. It's like, it's just funny how your perceptions of things change, you know? I think influencer marketing, because I've been heavy in the space for a long time, has been very interesting. But once again, it's like anything else. Shane Barker: What are your goals? Why do you want to get into that? Jeff Bullas: With the influencers, I ask them where people want to be influenced. Like, what's your reason for being an influencer? What are you seeing? There's a reason why you want to do that. “Well, I want to make tons of money. Oh, I want to do this.” And UCLA has a different level of individuals. I mean, you know, usually parents are educated and so hopefully it's not all men. But it's LA though, right? So, there's a little bit. Shane Barker: Maybe it's the Hollywood syndrome. That's it, right? I mean, it's right there. So, I don't know. Anyways, it's interesting for sure. So cool. So, you kind of went through your little journey but now you're happy in the tech space. And so, where are you spending your time these days? I mean, I'm sure you've got a website and all that. You're doing consulting. What else do you do a lot of speaking engagements? Jeff Bullas: Yeah. But we’ll do some speaking in Estonia in about a month’s time. I’ll be speaking over there at a digital tech conference. So that's going to be fun. We're going to Chicago in October, and a bunch of other things around that. The part for me is that we continue to evolve as a business. We start to get more involved in start-ups and software as a service company. I've been on the board of a start-up called Shuttlerock. We pivoted twice. Now we are global Facebook partner; media partner. So, what we do is we scale videos with static images into videos. We can do that at scale, very cost effectively. That's great for Facebook because that helps create content for them too. It optimizes all their Facebook ads. So, then we can increase conversion rates significantly by 10, 20, 40, 50% over standard ads. So, we're sort of moving more into strategic, that's by start-up plus investments, sweat equity space. That's really what we're starting to move into. Yes. When I started the blog, it was what social media is for me. It's more about what social media does. It enables you to have a voice to reach the world and change the world and create a business. So that's what I'm moving more into. Also, we'll be doing a little bit of traveling. I totally agree with you about routine like the influence of life. That's maybe touted around as being this romantic vision of hotels, beaches, bikinis and fabulous food. You know what, for me, sometimes it’s just boring day to day routine normalcy. There's a certain comfort in that but interspersed with interesting fun stuff. For me life is more about contrast. It’s not just about either being stuck in a routine or always on the road. I think a lot of speakers and friends of mine are on that. And so, being on the road all the time is just tiring. And then it's harder to keep fit. Because of your routine, it's hard to eat the right food because you're in different countries. You need to get the important, Deep Work done, which is the book by Cal Newport. It sorts of summed up what I had been doing for the last seven, eight years. That's what I think is important. Segue a little bit into the how it influences the space again. A lot of stuff that's created is what I call superficial. Yes. It's about consumerism and sometimes at its worst, rather than creating something that changes people's lives significantly for the better. Cal Newport talks about when you sit down every day. Maybe for two hours a day, write or paint or do video. In other words, create content of consequence. I think being able to sit down and create is what the internet and the social web has given us. It's given us the platform to share our creation with the world. And for me it's important. I think creating is one thing. Where the real magic happens is when you share your creations with the world. It's sharing your business as it grows or sharing your art. When you start sharing with this global media we have now, the social web, you are changing the world. The world is changing you and I think it's important to understand that. I think about why I want to be an influencer. You might be having those discussions with some of your students. If you do it for the wrong reasons, it's not going to be sustainable. I think it's really going to come from a passionate interest in something. I'm just reading Richard Branson's book now. He wrote it in 2007, I think it was Losing my Virginity, whatever it is. But he just does stuff that he loves doing. So basically, he’s driven by a passionate interest in the subject area that he wants to get into. I think that's the only way it's going to be sustainable. If you're doing it just for money, it's going to get you. If you're doing for the right reasons, then I think it's much more sustainable. The thing is, as you do create and grow, what you are passionate about is also going to evolve. That's going to lead to pivot points and transitions. Then you really have to listen to and watch what you're doing and get in touch with that. So, the social web has totally changed my life in the sense of giving me a voice. I am also learning how important it was to share my writing and creation with the world. A lot of people are afraid to do that. I think they're afraid of being judged. They say, “Well, why would anyone care? These people are much better than I. I need to get it just right before I hit the publish button or before I share it.” And the reality is much more different to that. You should be sharing your best work and when you start off. It's not going to be that good, but it shouldn't stop you. Because for me, it wasn't just the writing on the blog. It was the interaction globally as people were impacted by what we created for content. They gave us feedback. So, essentially, we are to create content, whether it's video, whether it's images, whether it's writing, whether it's art. As you create it and then share it, that's where the real magic for me happens. You get the feedback and you know what works and what doesn't. You create relationships out of that as people interact, and I love that. For me, I've met so many wonderful people globally. I remember talking to a lady who was getting the social media bit about two or three years ago. She was at Social Media Examiner’s event, Social Media Marketing World. She said, “You know what, I feel like I've just joined my tribe, right?” She had a passionate interest in social media, obviously. Then she came to the event and met so many other people who are passionate about it. That's what I think really is also an important facet of this social web. It is very social, and I think it connects disparate tribes all around the world. And that's what just blows me away all the time. It’s people who I've only met online or they've only been reading your blog. You got an event, or you go on the other side of the world and you bump into them. They’re going, “You changed my life. I awakened an interest or a passion in me about this.” I went. I just continue to be amazed by the opportunity of creating, sharing and distributing them with the world. And that for me is just being awesome to say the least. Shane Barker: Yeah, I mean it is kind of insane. It's funny you talk about the influencer thing and the personal branding that the class that I teach over there. It's one of the things that I always touch on. It’s like once again, what are your goals? What's your reason for being an influencer? But really, it's a personal branding course. The idea of it is if you want to do be an influencer full time, this is what you want to do. First, why are you doing it? But you really must build a brand and you have to realize that it's not all cupcakes and caviar. You have to realize that if you really want to build this thing out. This is your own business and you have to treat it like your own business. There are going to be ups and downs. And if you want to live the Kente life, just know that it's not going to be easy and it's going to take a while to get there. It's not an overnight thing. This just happened to be like three, four days ago. Someone gets a hold of me through Instagram. She said, “Hey, you know, I really want to figure out how to get more followers. Do you know how many ways?” And so, I sent her some blog posts and she goes, “I've read your blog posts. I just want to know how to get more followers.” And I said, “Okay, let me look at your account.” So, I looked at it quickly and I go back through and I go, “How long have you been on Instagram?” And she goes, “13 days.” Yes. Well, you’ve got to put in a little more time than that. Thirteen days is usually not the pivotal point to become famous. She said 13 days and I thought it was a friend who was joking around with me. So, I said, “Here's the deal. Just do it for three or four months. Put up a picture a day. Do some Instagram stories and then I'll take a look at it?” But 13 days in and my recommendation is keep going. You're not even at the tip of the iceberg. Nobody's even hit the things. You can start your journey. You're still at the start line. You know what I'm saying? It was just kind of funny. I just thought, man, everybody wants the three-second abs instead of the seven-second ads. I want the three-second ads, and then how can I do a one-second ads? And then it's one of those things. Listen, it's not going to happen overnight. It just isn't. You will not. All these things take off viral and go do this and go do something a little crazier. I tried to get a response. Those are all tactics. If you're really going to build something to look back on and be proud of, it's going to take work. It's not an overnight thing. It just isn't. So, it's interesting. People will, “I want this overnight success. Do you think by the end of the course I can start, you know, making money?” I'm like, “It's really up to you, if it’s the right time and right place.” I mean it's a crowded space. That doesn't mean that you can't find a great niche that you enjoy doing. If it's just all about money, then you're chasing money and that's going to disappoint you at times. Yes, it is interesting. It is kind of a trip, but once again it comes down to hey listen, this is a long-term play. This isn't going to happen overnight, ever. Jeff Bullas: And a lot of them just do not realize that building distribution is just work for years. Kim Kardashian basically built a distribution by appearing on mass media, but it was a lucky break. And then she also used mass media leverage into the social media space as that emerged. So, the reality is it does take a long time. And yes, you will have some lucky breaks along the way. It may be an interview on a major show or it's someone distributing you on their list. Then you've got to keep an eye on the trends because what you're working on may stop working. You only have to look at what happened in Facebook in 2014. They started to move from organic to pay to play. The only way you can really get any traction on Facebook these days is unless you're a movie star. Basically, you’ve got to pay for it. Then you've got to be really smart about how you spend the money. So, the reality is social media before 2013. Yes for three or four years, it was fabulously organic. But as the landscape changed, the pay to play algorithms were modified; everyone's organic traffic. There were businesses that advised we built their business model. But organic social essentially has disappeared overnight. So, the thing for me is certainly multichannel. Within the last 12 months or two years we focused a lot on building domain authority. There are two parts to getting Google authorities so that you’ll rank on the first page. If you are lucky or work hard enough you get number one on page one. We saw social continue to decline. We said, we’ll we need to make sure when covering ourselves from a distribution point of view. So, we invested. We'd get six to nine months of work into the technical aspects of search engine optimization for the website. Also, with the structure or the pillar content, we’re creating between 5,000- and 6,000-word blog posts. The pillar content is the authority. It can position itself as being one of the best in the business in your sector. It took us essentially nine months before we started to see any significant uptick in traffic. Then we dropped away a bit as a Google changed their algorithm. So, we invested a lot of money and a lot of time. And even with the domain authority that we have looks good. We about five to six million visitors a year. It still took us that time to really see that uptick. The other thing that’s challenging is the effectiveness of the email. So, email open rights have continued to decline. Twelve months ago, we invested in building our Facebook messenger subscriber base. Today we've got about 12,000 on that list. We have a lot of better open rates than click through rates on there. Then you're not sure. Facebook might change the strategy on using Facebook Messenger and what site we're using to split business and personal messaging. So, you're going to have to start again and build, who knows? But there's rumours around the mill about that sort of thing happening. You just must understand that you've got to make hay while the sun shines. The algorithm might change tomorrow. Shane Barker: That's the hard part. I tell people. People will reach out. Once again, “Hey, you want to be in whatever it is.” If I'm on Instagram, that's where I have my profile. I'm like, what are their profiles that you have? “I just have Instagram.” I said, “that's scary.” Jeff Bullas: And it's scary. Shane Barker: It’s scary because you don't know how much. I mean, how much of Instagram do you own? And they're like, “I don't own Instagram.” I go, “Exactly!” So, you can complain about algorithms, you can complain about this, you can complain about that. Whenever they decide on it, it's the best thing for Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or whatever. So, I tell people, “Listen, if you're talking about personal branding, that should go to your website. This should drive traffic to wherever you have your money or your lead magnets or whatever that is.” The problem is, with Instagram, you can put up too many risky pictures. Or, you can talk about this, you can talk about that and they could ban you. I've had clients that have lost overnight and they're like, “I don't know what to do.” Now, we were able to get them back because we explained what the reason was or whatever the deal was. But I'm like, man, I mean it's like a site you own. Obviously, you guys have invested in that, right? I understand you got the algorithm. You got this but there comes a point now, obviously it's not an overnight thing. Yours wasn't overnight. Mine was not overnight. But it gets to a point where this is what's funny. My wife is probably going to listen to this too. My son is hearing that anything I learned in college I don't use anymore. Now, I'm going to talk about my wife. I might have to move to Australia when I'm done with this. m going to talk about my wife, I might have to move to Australia when I'm done with this. Jeff Bullas: I'd pass it. New Zealand scoring good as well, as I have heard it. A lot of Americans live in New Zealand. Yeah. Shane Barker: That's good to know. I mean, it's good to know I've got a place out there. Yes. My wife, in the beginning was like, “You're doing all this writing and you're hiring writers and you're doing this. What is this? How much money have you made from this?” And I'm like, “You know, this is, it's a long-term play.” I invested early, you know, and I just didn't know how it was going to pay off. Now we're at the point where you can monetize a blog, but it's just not easy. You need plenty of things. Jeff Bullas: How long it takes to monetize the blog? Shane Barker: It takes a while to get that kind of traffic, man. It just really does. And it's like, it's always a work in progress. You guys invested in that early. I think that's the key. It's like you own that blog, right? Nobody can tell as long as you're paying your host and you pay your $10 for GoDaddy or whatever. Let us assume that you're not doing anything weird SEO-wise. As long as you do things on the up and up, it can bear money. I mean, it can bear fruit for you down the road. Jeff Bullas: It worries me a lot when I see people just building personal branding on just Instagram. I'm going, “Gee, that is such a dangerous place to do that.” Instagram should be one of your digital assets that you have investment in, but you do not own it. It's rental property. You are there under the landlord’s authority and permission and like…….. they’re going to sell the house. Or, they're going to change it or blow it up. Or, government regulation comes in and changes the game. That is potentially a nipping at the ties of Facebook and others. Facebook even said they're going to combine all their messenger from WhatsApp and Facebook messenger into one messenger app. And then, the EU guys be very careful about doing that because you'll be seen as a monopoly. So, we're watching social media grow up. It was a wild west ten years ago. Now it's going to be subject to all the rigor of mature industries as it continues to evolve. So yes, for me it's something I've been banging on about for nearly a decade. Own your asset and for sure. Use social media as your distribution. So, it's a hub-and-spoke model. You've got what it is that you own. That’s your website, your blog, and as you just said, it's yours. It’s yours as long as you keep paying the hosting fee and keep renewing your domain name. So, the reality is that you do need to make sure that you do that. When I see this in people wanting to be insta famous and that's their only asset, I’m going scary. You really need to rethink this because you're playing on borrowed ground, you know? Shane Barker: Yes, absolutely. So, talk about content marketing. For your website, let's say as an example probably for clients, what are your key pillars for content? Like, I mean I'm assuming the pillar content, right? The big blog posts are five or six hundred words. How do you guys create for your content marketing? How do you guys do that for your website? So, if somebody was listening and says, “Hey, I want to build a website.” Obviously, you have years and years of experience, right? So today, how do you guys structure that when it comes to putting content up on your website? Jeff Bullas: I did it very ad hoc initially. So, I suppose I credit SEO authority just with blunt force trauma. I would just create a lot of content. In fact, for four years, shortly after I started out, I got up at 4:30 AM. Before I started my day job and at 9:00 AM I had basically written a blog post. I published it, distributed it on email, sent it out on social and we credit authority just by doing that. But we discovered two years ago that as Google has become much more technical. The algorithms have become more sophisticated. We've had to really double down on the technical side. So, we will go in and look and do some keyword research. We’ll see what sort of categories and what sort of phrases and getting the right traffic. You don't want to be chasing just phrases or one word. You need to do the long tail, four to five words as a phrase. Questions are big now, as Google's algorithms evolve. You know what doesn't seem as important, but make sure that the site loads quickly. Make sure that when people go to your mobile site, it's easy to read. Also, the calls to action to convert those readers into subscribers and then into customers is also done well. It's a very complicated space as you know. That's why just doing something every day is a step towards building a sustainable and online business. Be aware of changes that are going to happen around you. So, we really doubled down on the technical side like site loading speed. We made sure we had a site map done. We made sure we had the categories that are important in our industry. I’m someone who doesn't really understand this yet; I'm not an SEO expert. I understand the concepts, but I basically built the team. One of my core team members is really good at SEO. It's important that early on I get your site structure and technical setup. Then get your categories and then key phrases that you want to chase under that. You can't control all that. All you can do is you make sure you get 80% right. The next job after getting it technically is probably creating content. Content should solve people's problems and position you as an expert in your space. Then you continue to do that creation. Shane Barker: Yeah, because to do it right is difficult. I mean, because you're saying it's never going to be perfect, right? Shane Barker: Yeah, because to do it right is difficult. I mean, because you're saying it's never going to be perfect, right? Jeff Bullas: We gave you an example of this and in fact we're switching this on my site as we speak. The dates that we had on my website weren't correct. Like the formatting of the dates; we didn't have it correct. It is a huge thing and I didn't know that. I've done SEO, for I don't know how long. I just read a blog post about that and I was like, “Oh my God.” I've always said we should change the way we have our dates done, when we start working on other stuff. I just read that recently. I thought every single one of my dates on my things are messed up. It just wasn't technically right. This was at a certain company. They went and changed their dates and saw an increase of 30% in their web traffic. Now Google can see when those blog posts have been done. Then when you update them obviously you get better rankings. it's a little simple stuff like that that I think I was also going to do. You know who ViperChill is. Neil is a big SEO guy and he does little evaluations. I was going to have him do an evaluation on my website. It was just like a ten-minute video or something like that on just really, really technical SEO. I have a few people on my team that are good at technical SEO but there's always moving pieces. Once you change this then this changes just a little bit. There are always these pages loading and all that. It's page speed and all that which is always constantly changing images or the size of your images. And you know, the amount of all widgets and plugins and all these bogs it all down. It's just trying to come up with that perfect mix. It's only been this way for probably the last five, six, seven years. I remember in the beginning you talked about this. We would just put content up to put content up, right? At UCLA, I show my students. I still have it up on my blog. It’s not because I'm proud of it; I have it as a point. I show my first blog post and it's terrible. I mean, it's bad. And people were like, “Why would you? Oh my God, that's terrible.” And I go, “Yes. But the point is I started.” Shane Barker: You started. That's the most important thing. Jeff Bullas: For me, one of the key phrases I'll use all the time is ‘done is better than perfect’. So, you've just got to get started. Yes, some of us are more conservative than the others. Some of us are much more introverted. Brene Brown covers that in her TED Talk. The reality is that about 40% of the population is who we're going to. So, they're much more afraid of actually putting themselves out there. But it's a fear you're going to have to overcome in the online world. You've got to be willing to put yourself out there and start and be willing to be judged. When I started writing, I just needed to get it out so maybe I hadn't proofread it correctly. The grammar was a little bit average and I'd have the grammar and spelling place turned up. It gave me a hard time and I went, “Well, okay, sorry, I didn't have time for an editor”. It doesn't work that way, especially when I have big bucks invested in a team of people before making money. That's not going to happen. So, it just got to suck it up. And I think you get a little thicker skin over time to handle that sort of heat. At the end of that, I went, well, I've got more traffic than you. You shouldn't complain about my grammar. You complain merely about my spelling, but I've got more attention than you have. I actually have got a business and we actually have a lot of fun doing this stuff. So, thanks for it. But in a nice way we say thanks for letting us know and we'll make changes. We'll get around making changes. Thank you. Shane Barker: Yes, exactly. And that's what's always funny. I always tell people that if people come to your site and give you a hard time, you've made it. You're in a good position because they’re reading your stuff still. If they're not going to come back because of it, then that's fine. It's not the kind of person you want anyways. The people that are coming with their comments is like YouTube. YouTube has some pretty bad trolls on there. But you know, when they're coming to your website and they're reading your content, to me that's good, right? If you think these things need to be changed, I've never claimed to be perfect. Listen, if you get 90% of what I'm saying, then life’s good. Do you understand the premise? If a missing comma throws off my whole article for you, then I'm probably not a good fit for you. I’m going to mess up things here and that's the only thing I can promise out of the whole thing. Jeff Bullas: Exactly. That's funny. Shane Barker: So, tell me, obviously you've been in this space for a long time. What are like three software or tools that you use that you can't live without? Like your team, if you said, “Hey, I'm going to shut these things down,” your team would be surprised. They would say, “Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Jeff, what are you doing? You've been drinking too many beers or something like that. It's a bad decision.” Jeff Bullas: Yes. I discovered one tool early on. It is Snagit when I want to do screenshots and capture images and then edit them. That was important early on. The other one as far as my CRM is Infusionsoft, sometimes known as ‘confusion soft’ because it's so technical. So, you do need an email or CRM marketing platform for automation. I remember I got given a really hard time early on when I started automating social media posts on Twitter. One tool I couldn't do without now is Agorapulse. The founder Emeric is from Paris. Emeric Ernoult is just a fabulous guy. He and his partner built the fabulous social media marketing tool called Agorapulse. I couldn't do without that. We worked together with him to build out a feature on his platform. That allows me to tweet every 15 minutes out to my users. I've got about 580,000 users on Twitter and we've got a whole bank of content. I can share content over six days without doubling up. I can do more than that, but we keep refreshing our content. Older stuff retard newer stuff. We try and create evergreen content but Agorapulse is one platform that I've found we could not do without. The latest one we couldn't do without is basically the Facebook Bot Platform we use, which is ManyChat. There's one out by Larry Kim called MobileMonkey. We started implementing building out our Facebook Messenger subscribers. We were seeing our email list being less effective. In the last 12 months we have used ManyChat to build our Facebook Messenger subscriber base. That's something I couldn't do without today. That gives you an idea of the emerging landscape and how you've got to keep challenging that. So yes, there's a few. Shane Barker: So, it's funny. So, I've used Snagit. You know what, a tool that I use, and it was revolutionary for me is, have you ever used Loom? The video? Jeff Bullas: I've heard of it, yeah. I hadn't. Shane Barker: So, the reason why it's been helpful for me is because my team… Is your team remote? Do you have a remote team? Jeff Bullas: Yeah. Shane Barker: Okay. So that's the same with mine. So, my team is literally all over the world. The video thing helped. If you get whatever 50, 100 whatever, how many emails I get, I could go and look at a page. Or I could look at something and say, “Hey, we need to change this, this, this and this.” Or, “Hey guys, I saw this. Hey, we're looking at this. Hey, I like this in regard to the logo.” And I could do it really fast because back in the day it was just all email. So, for me it was email, great one thing. And then all of sudden it was Snagit. Hey, I can point arrows and now I can tell you I have stuff to write it out. And now I have Loom, which I literally have used. I think I'm probably a loom abuser. I'm probably the reason why they might not make it, or their servers might go down. because that's how often I use it. Jeff Bullas: Probably not. Shane Barker: Still, I feel like that. There's been probably 720 videos. I mean, I'll do for reports. I do it for sales. I'm going to do it for a lot of different things. I sent an email for sales and then you read it. You're like, “Ah, what about this part of it? I have some questions.” I try to answer all the questions in the video. Like, “Oh, hey, John. I wanted to see that proposal over, wanting to explain this.” With my team it's been awesome. With design stuff, I'm trying to change two colours and move this thing over three inches. Like the emails that I would send, I would read them again in the morning. I'm like, “Oh my God, no wonder they didn't understand what I was talking about.” Like I read it again and it's just... So, video has been tremendous for me. Once again, I can get more out at a faster rate. So, look, it's been fun. Now, ManyChat is something I have to take a look at. I know Larry has reached out to me. I've got the only reason. Well, not the only reason. Larry has reached out to me for a number of reasons. I'm number one for AI Chat Bot. So, he was like, “Hey, what's going on Shane?” And I was like, “Oh hey, what's up?” And he goes, “Hey, you are number one for the keyword that I need.” And I was like, “Okay, so let's talk.” So yeah, we've gotten on. I like Larry, he's a good guy. Jeff Bullas: Yes. I think I met him in San Diego couple years ago. So, yeah, the whole Facebook messenger side is certainly something we are doubling down on. We can get the same. We can get more clicks and more conversions from Facebook messenger. And the list is only one fifth, one seventh the size of the email list. So, we certainly doubled down on that. We've invested a bit of a 12 months’ worth in that at the moment. We'll do some more testing as we evolve that out. Shane Barker: All right. Yeah, I'm going to have to jump a little more into it. We've done some stuff on my website for conversion stuff. It really hasn't converted the way that I would like it to. I've got a little leverage because I go in and tell the guys, “Hey, I'm number one for your keyword. What do you guys want to build out for me?” So, I'll leverage that a little bit. We'll see. Hopefully in six months it'll be better there. So awesome, let's think. So, what other projects are you working on? Have you got anything else? It sounds like you've been working on obviously the Chat Bot side of things, then getting that going. Anything fun? Have you got any books coming out yet? Jeff Bullas: The last four months have been a bit of a tough time, personally. I won’t go into detail, but I sort of had to step back a bit. I've got a book in the mill. It is more about what has made me happy. It’s more about what helps me to be resilient, what helps me to assist. It’s more about life skills necessarily about social media or digital marketing. I'm really more fascinated about the human condition. I suppose, it’s in terms of how we make life that success and how we communicate effectively online. And so that's the book, more on that sort of space. And again, we’re also working more strategically with start-ups. It’s not first stage start-ups necessarily, but ones that are starting to get some traction. It may help them with some sweat equity. So, we’re just working on some of that sort of ideas. We are going to platform and help people grow their base, grow their subscribers. We know how to do that as well. So yes, I suppose we’re just keeping it fun. And for me it's as Richard Branson said, “If it's not fun, that's not worth doing.” And I think it doesn't mean you don't do some of the stuff that needs to be done. That’s making sure you got your account, looking after your taxes and all the basic boring stuff. We’re transitioning to, I suppose, a space within the space. We started with social media and digital entrepreneurship and so working closely with start-ups strategically. Software as a service to companies is where we can help them scale throughout distribution. Yes, there is some interesting stuff that we're working on. Shane Barker: So, what about traveling? So, I know you'd like to travel, you're also a cyclist, right? So, you'd like to do that as well. So, tell me a little bit about that. I just looked at your Instagram and you like all these fun places. Do you do a lot of cycling? Jeff Bullas: Yeah, I do a lot of cycling. So essentially, I ride bike. I used to be a runner for decades. My feet started to get a little bit worn out from the impact. Cycling is so good because it’s very low impact exercise. It's good to take a ride with your friends. You can have a chat, you can have a coffee, you get to fit at the same time. You’re seeing beautiful landscapes unfold around you and for you. We've ridden in places like South Africa. Done the Argus, which is the biggest ride bike race in the world. That closed down the whole Cape effectively. I ride Indian Ocean-Atlantic Ocean. That was 40,000 people. I've ridden in New Zealand several times. We rode in France. For me it's about making people try and separate life and business. And I think that that's the wrong way to think about it. It is life. So how can you make business fun? How can you make life fun? How you make life just fun might make a difference. When we speak in Estonia, we are going to take that opportunity while we're there to actually spend a couple of months in Italy and there's some cycling but get into a daily routine of work as well. So, it’s basically my life continues to be an experiment in life design because it's something I'm really passionate about. I see people line up to get into the lifts and go into the high-rise towers. They all pour out at five o'clock in the afternoon. That is something that distinctly demotivates me. Luckily, I’m in a position where I don't have to do that. Yes, we intend to do a bit of time maybe in Bali for a few weeks as well. We’ll work from there but work in places where we can create a routine, not just traveling. We’ll explore the world while having fun growing business. We’ll do it sort of routine and get fit along the way with some cycling. Shane Barker: See, that's kind of me. I probably shouldn't say this out loud. I will lower my speaker gigs for people or places that I haven't been to. If somebody comes to me and say they’ll be speaking in this country I'm going to lower my fee. I want to make sure I get it. I look at it the other way instead of I want to make more money. If you guys find me out and I could be there for a few weeks, that's awesome. That's not half the cost but a good percentage of it, and now you can just have some fun. Jeff Bullas: So, what you want is not more money. You want more experiences. That’s what it is. Shane Barker: That's it. I mean I don't have the money side of things. I will go way down on fees. I get to a point where if I want to go there, then I'm going to go there. If you're willing to fly me out there, then hey, we can work something out in the middle. It's not a bad thing. Jeff Bullas: It isn't a bad thing. I've been to just some fabulous places: Turkey, Baltic, Kuwait, Romania and Norway and Helsinki, and Seoul. My mom asked me the other day, visiting me. Mom said, “How many places you've been to?” I went, “A good question, Mom.” So, I'll start reeling them off and I think I've got up to 30 without too much trouble. And I went, “You know, I just feel I'm a lucky guy. I'm so grateful to have, in essence, heard the whispers to start the blog.” And that's the thing about your passionate purpose. And I think Steven Spielberg, the lovely YouTube video, talks about listen for that whisper because it doesn't shout. I think that's really important for people to understand. It’s that intuition and also what you’re meant to be doing sometimes is something that isn't obvious. We were brought up in a world, decades ago. You got to be a nurse, teacher, doctor, lawyer, or cabinet maker, right? Those are traditional roles. But that whole space of career and life design is now just so awesome. You've got so much flexibility to reach the world and basically tread a life around that. And that's what happened to me. And I just never cease to be grateful. Also, I never cease to be surprised by the opportunities that show up. I was willing to actually share my creation with the world. Shane Barker: Well, you worked hard. All right. So, we're almost at the end of this thing. I know this has been a fun little journey for me. If I were to give you a credit card with a $50,000 limit, I don't know if that's even enough. I know you live that high life and you were going to go max it out at some store. Where would you go? If I said, “Listen, you know what, Jeff, we've been good friends. Here is a card. I don't know why it's 50 grands that my wife didn't use this month.” I don't know. For some reason I had the cash on a card, and I give it to you. Where would you go? Where would you go blow 50 grands? Jeff Bullas: It would be on travel and experiences. It would be the ability to meet other people globally around the world, whether it's at conferences, whatever it was. So, for me, it's not about more stuff. It's about more meaningful experiences that just makes life rich. I think there's some studies being done that at around $75,000 to $100,000. Earning more money doesn't make you any happier as long as you've got the fundamentals paid for. It doesn’t, as long as you can put food on the table. It doesn’t, as long as you can pay debts off and no one's chasing you for money. The rest comes down to quality human relationships. Experiences that feed yourself. That’s what I would spend on. Spend it on the experiences and the ability, from those experiences, to connect with more people. Discover more opportunity that allows me to have more fun with more people. So, that's what I would do. Shane Barker: That's awesome. Well, I tell you again, this has been an awesome interview. This is half the reason I do the podcasts. You see people online and then you get to be able to talk with them. And obviously I know you through online stuff. You seem to be an awesome human. It is just the way you think about things. It’s the way you look at things. Once again you don't always get that reading somebody’s content. But I think it's nice. That's why I enjoy the podcasts. Then you get to meet some people to hear what their goals are. A lot of them align with my goals in the sense that it's like just let's have some fun while we're on this earth. Do good things. Jeff Bullas: Absolutely. I think our purpose in life is to discover what our purpose in life is. And I think if you really keep looking, keep listening and it will be a whisper. Shane Barker: Yeah. Awesome. All Right Jeff. So, if anybody needs to get in contact with you, they have a start-up that's, you know, been funded, they need some money, a little bit of guidance in their life. How can they get in contact with you? Jeff Bullas: So, you've got a contact form at jeffbullas.com, so, j-e-f-f-b-u-l-l-a-s.com. So, we're not hard to find. Drop in, check us out and happy to have a chat and we do all sorts of fun stuff. Shane Barker: Awesome, Jeff. Hey, have an awesome day out there, man. Once again, thanks for being on the podcast. We'll be chatting here soon. Jeff Bullas: Okay, glad to be part of the show. Shane Barker: Thanks, buddy. Bye-bye. Jeff Bullas: Bye.