Julia McCoy is a content marketing ninja and a bestselling author. She is the founder and CEO of Express Writing, and also an educator at Content Strategy Courses. Julia is recognized as one of the top 30 content marketers worldwide and was listed as a thought leader on Forbes. Beside being a serial content marketer, Julia is also a proud mother, a book aficionado, and a coffee addict.
- The hustle required to kickstart a business
- The importance of deadlines in content writing
- How to rank for long-tail keywords
[2:15] Julia Talks About Her Childhood and Cults
[5:43] Julia Gives Us an Overview of Her New Book
[10:00] Freelance Copywriting Industry
[13:59] Birth of Express Writers
[17:58] Way Out of the Cult with Husband
[26:35] Julia’s First Book
[31:26] Julia’s Second Book
[37:07] The Importance of Failure
[43:02] Julia’s Passions
[49:41] Julia Talks About ContentHacker.com
[54:39] Favorite Vacation Spot
Content marketing can help you increase your brand’s reach, lead generation, and sales. However, it is essential to have a well-documented content marketing plan to do so effectively. A recent study by CMI and MarketingProfs showed that 63% of businesses didn’t have documented content marketing strategies.
However, many businesses understand its importance, and that’s the reason why about 19% of them plan to have a documented content marketing strategy in the next year.
To help you figure out how to create a solid content marketing plan, I have with me, Julia McCoy. She’s the founder of Express Writers and is an educator at Content Strategy Courses. With over 8 years of experience in content marketing, she’s here to discuss everything that goes into creating high-quality content.
Here are the steps that go into creating the ultimate content marketing plan:
1. Decide on Your Goals
Before you start with your content marketing plan, you should set your goals. This will help make sure that you concentrate all of your efforts on reaching them. Along with your goals, you also need to figure out your target audience. These are the people who’ll be interested in your business. You can define it based on their demographics, locations, and interests.
To reach your goal, you’ll need to put all your efforts into reaching out to this group of people. It is also a great idea to come up with a mission statement which covers your goals, target audience, and the benefits you’ll offer them. You may also include the type of content you’ll use to help your target audience.
For example, CIO.com has mentioned their mission statement in the About Us section of their website. It covers everything that’s necessary.
Image via CIO
Based on your goals, you’ll also be able to gauge your performance. The goals allow you to set different key performance indicators (KPIs) that can help you track and analyze your success. These include traffic, number of leads, the revenue generated, etc.
2. Decide on the Type of Content
There’s a variety of content that you can come up with to promote your brand. Some of the most popular forms of content are blog posts, guest posts, images, videos, and infographics.
Blog posts are published on your own website and help you improve the SEO of your website. At the same time, if the blog posts are well-written and provide value to your readers, you may start attracting a lot of traffic too.
You can also come up with engaging videos and infographics that can be shared easily. This can help you get more backlinks and increase your website’s authority.
You can also take inspiration from other websites in your industry, which are performing well. By observing what’s working for them, you can figure out what sort of content you should come up with. Using tools such as BuzzSumo, you can see what works for the topics you want to write about.
You can further see where you wish to write guest posts. These websites should ideally be high-authority ones so that you can not only increase your reach but get quality backlinks. They can help you improve your SEO even further.
3. Come Up With An Editorial Plan
Once you’ve decided on the type of content you’re going to create; you need to create an editorial plan. In this, you need to plan your workflows and timelines.
You should also prioritize the actions that you’re going to take. List them in the order of decreasing priority. Through this method, you’ll be able to find those tasks that affect your performance the most.
Image via Shane Barker
After doing this, you can start looking for relevant topics. These should be the ones that can attract your target audience and keep them moving through your sales funnel. For this, you can use tools such as SEMrush and KWFinder. The latter can help you find long-tail keywords for which you can start ranking easily. You should also create a content calendar that elaborates what is going to be published when.
The content for each stage of the sales funnel will vary. The awareness stage requires content that informs the customers about your brand. Blog posts can work very well here.
In the consideration stage, you need to provide authoritative content to your audience. This may include whitepapers and case studies. The decision stage requires a more personal touch. Hence, emails work very well here.
4. Have a Content Distribution Plan
Once you have an editorial plan, you need to create a distribution plan for your content. High-quality content cannot get attention unless it is distributed well. There are three ways you can distribute your content: owned media, earned media, and paid media.
Owned media consists of your website, blog, and social media profiles. You entirely control this. Earned media includes the shares, mentions, reviews, and articles about you in external media. Lastly, the paid media is comprised of all of the advertising that you do, such as guest posts, PPC ads, display ads, and social media promotions.
Image via SEMrush
Having a well-thought-out distribution plan will help you get your content to your target audience with ease. This, in turn, will help you increase your readership and get you more potential leads and customers.
Identify the channels which can work the best for you and start using them to distribute your content.
5. Analyze and Optimize
Lastly, once you’ve started creating content and distributing it, you need to begin analyzing its performance. Check which content pieces are performing well and which ones aren’t. To determine this, you can use metrics like visitor count, bounce rate, likes, shares, organic traffic, backlinks, number of leads, revenue, and more.
Based on the performance, you can start optimizing your content to help you reach your final goals. Doing this can help you increase your reach, engagement, lead generation, and revenue.
Creating a content marketing plan can take a lot of effort and planning. Once you decide on your goals and zero-in on your target audience, you can start working towards achieving your goals. Having an editorial plan and a content distribution strategy are also important. Lastly, you need to analyze the performance of your content regularly to see how well it’s performing and optimize it.
What other things do you keep in mind while creating a content marketing plan? Let me know in the comments.
Shane Barker: Welcome to the podcast. I am Shane Barker, your host and Shane Barker's marketing madness podcast. I am your host Shane Barker. Today we're going to discuss the content marketing strategies. My guest, Julia McCoy is the founder and CEO of express writers, which is a content writing agency which has served more than 5,000 clients. She's also the author of two best sellers, "So You Think You Can Write" and "Practical Content Strategy and Marketing". She also serves as the educator at content strategies courses dot com. Shane Barker: I always kind of started the podcast off with just kind of some general questions of like where you grew up and that kind of stuff. Just are we going to get an idea of we know who you are today like cause every, you're certainly like a new business every week. Every time I looked at their profiles, we'll jump into that. I'm happy that you're a little bit of a crazy entrepreneur like me, so I, like I said, I love that. Can't even keep up with you, but let's talk about where you grew up. Like where did you grow up? Not Obviously not in Austin, right? You grew up some another place? Julia McCoy: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I grew up on the east coast, so right outside Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania. I grew up in Monongahela right by the Monongahela river, kind of like right outside Amish country in Pennsylvania. Shane Barker: Awesome. So how long were you there for? Julia McCoy: So I was there my whole life until age 21 whenever I just left and went to Missouri. And that's where I spent several years, like the first three years, four years of building my business were spent in Missouri. And then from there I went to Austin. We kind of like road trips around, we're like, where do we want to live and settle? And we loved Austin. So I'm like, okay, I can work from anywhere. I'm going to pick the city. So that is where I am currently. And I don't know if I'll ever leave Austin Shane Barker: like, yeah. Awesome. I just went there. I had so much fun. I almost went and got an Austin Tattoo on my neck. I mean, that's so much fun. It, yeah, it's a lot of fun. Yeah, there's other parts of my buddy could've got us yet. Why not? My neck cause then people can see my dedication to Austin. But I didn't get it. So we're good. We're still good next time. You never know. You never know, especially when you have as much fun as I did and with the cool people that I met out there. Nothing but a good time for sure. Julia McCoy: Yeah. Austin's great. Shane Barker: Well cool. So how big was your family? Julia McCoy: So I grew up, um, well it was just me and my sister for 18 years and then my parents decided to have two more kids. So 18 years apart. Yeah. And I was often the older sisters slash, babysitter. So that was my relationship with my little siblings. Shane Barker: Gotcha. So you, you loved them, but secretly maybe not hated him, but you're like, oh, I gotta watch him again. Like I could have been free tonight if I didn't have little Johnny in my life, but probably, yeah, I get that. I get to about 18 years. It's interesting after 18 years that hey, let's, let's do it again. Julia McCoy: Yeah. Well, I guess a little bit of backstory, I didn't want to unleash too much on your podcast here, but I'm writing a book about this side of my life and I actually grew up in a cult that I escaped at age 21 you might already know this. Shane Barker: I do not know this. Shane Barker: No, I have goosebumps. Like literally I would, and I wasn't trying to pull this out of you. I literally was just like, oh cool. Can you tell me about it? Oh, tell me, I'm sorry. Oh, that's curious. I was like, we'll go get her book please. People still buy the book, but give us so god, this is juicy already. Like I don't even know. I don't even need copy of this. Okay, so give, this is why I called the marketing madness podcast because if business content that converts wouldn't be as applicable, marketing madness, madness potentially in the middle. So tell me about this 21 and you escape. Good Lord. Yeah, well it was, so that was all I knew growing up. It was my norm was living in this cult with just extreme roles. I never wore pants. And I've been corrected on that statement. People say maybe you should say you only wear dresses instead of you never wore pants cause it sounds like you're going pants lists. So correction, I only wore dresses. Shane Barker: So you weren't allowed to wear pants? Julia McCoy: Yes, yes, yes. Shane Barker: All right. We'll go through that. Okay, got it. Okay. Julia McCoy: Yes. But it was also, there was definitely a lot of abuse going on and you know, to me that was normal. I thought that's pretty much how every kid lived. Shane Barker: Yeah. You didn't know you're different. Julia McCoy: Yeah, exactly. But at 21 I had a lot of red flags and by then I was kind of getting the consciousness of an adult so I could start thinking for myself a little bit more than when I was a kid and my way out of the cult was actually starting my business. I started at while I was inside of that and it gave me the financial means I needed to get out. So I knew I couldn't tell my dad. He would probably have like locked us up because by then my sister and I and my older sister and I escaped together. We were getting locked up in our rooms. So I'm like, okay, we have to escape and we probably can't tell him we have to make this happen secretly. So we did. We left in the middle of the night when I was 21 in 2012 and I was able to even have a car that I paid for in cash because of my business. So bank gave me a way out and since then that avenue that gave me a way out has also become my career when I loved doing today. So it's pretty amazing how it all worked out. Shane Barker: So literally suppressed this kind of stuff up until 21 and that's probably why you start a business every two hours because your, this creativity that was pent up for you in 21 years now you're like, oh, you're like the world is your oyster and you have absolutely taken advantage of that. Julia McCoy: Yes. So true. Shane Barker: It's funny, I look at the questions and it is very leading you to think that I knew that's like where we were going with this. But I'm absolutely clueless. (Julia chuckling) Like I was absolutely, I was not the goal of this and I'm like, when you said that, I'm like, wow, hello. Right hand turn on a Friday. I'm like, this is for super interesting. I'm going to move around a little bit. So when is your, when you have a book that's coming out about this? Julia McCoy: Yes, I do. I've been working on it for 18 months. Shane Barker: This has nothing to do with, I mean it has you just with your life, so you're just coming out in the street and nothing would really, maybe you lead your business on how it helped you know for you. Julia McCoy: Yes. Yeah. That's all throughout. But it's my life. So it's like split up into two parts, right? Part one is life in the cult. Exactly what happened. And then part two is life after. How I broke out, what I've been doing, how I've like broken through personally barrier after barrier in my personal life, which I never thought would happen. Shane Barker: God, that is so crazy and be like, I'm, I don't even know. Like I had all these fun questions, all that stuff. And now that's just like, that's just like blew me away. Like I didn't even know how to where to go from here. Julia McCoy: I'm so sorry. I feel like I distracted you (laughing). Shane Barker: Oh No, no, no, no. To me, I think that's awesome that you shared that with us because it's a very personal thing, right? And then you're obviously writing a book about it, but to me that's awesome that you were willing to share that. I mean for me that's just like, like it's just crazy cause there's a kid, obviously you don't, you just think that's the way that it is cause you don't want any differently, nothing to compare it to. And obviously in those situations, they don't want you to compare it to anything. Shane Barker: Right? They want you to think this is the norm. Just such an intriguing. Of course, if you hadn't started all these businesses, we didn't have 10,000 other things to talk about. I would continue on. There'd be like, this was, I thought marketing and I would sound, don't worry about it. Go to the next podcast. So cool. We'll jump into some of the things here. So it's so funny. So the next question in theory was going to be, can you tell me an interesting fact about you growing up? Well, I think we've already taken care of that one. Julia McCoy: Right? And that was where I, I saw your question list. That's where, okay. I think I'm going to break it at that question, but I didn't, Shane Barker: that is too funny and I literally was not trying to probe you in the anything. I had no idea. This is like, like I said, out of left field, but I'll take it again. No, no, no. I don't think there's nothing to apologize. I think that's awesome. You're willing to bring that up. And the cool, the part that you're writing a book about it, I mean there's something very freeing about that to be able to, you know, to be able to talk about the things that happened there. Cause I'm sure obviously it sounds like it was a very delicate situation. So the fact that you brought up with me and to me I think of it as an honor. Julia McCoy: Oh thanks. Shane Barker: Yeah. Absolutely, so I do know a little bit about your college experience. So why don't we talk about this a little bit. So you, you decided to go to college. Was this at the same time that you were doing your marketing company or during the content company? give me a little background there. Julia McCoy: Yeah, totally. So it was more my parents idea than mine. I think when I was like maybe four or five years old, I told them, oh I want to be a nurse and help people when I grew up. So, you know, nursing, school, nursing, you have to be a nurse. That was in my mind all growing up. So nursing school was in my sites. I signed up to college. I think I was homeschooled. So that was one weird benefit of going through what I went through. We had no contact with the outside world except whenever I went to college. So we were homeschooled and that gave me the advantage of, I was able to start college at age 16 so, I was enrolled in college at that age, but I started my business when I was 19 so I was halfway through nursing school. Julia McCoy: I had gotten all my prerequisites out of the way at age 16 and then by 19 I was halfway through this RN program. And as I'm getting through it, I'm realizing this is not something I want to do the rest of my life. Like I just cannot do this. I'm like, it would just be a train wreck if this is all I did the rest of my life, I would hate it. So like even though I was in that environment of really being pressured to do whatever I was told to do, I was still trying to thank for myself. So I knew I would hate to do that the rest of my life. So one morning I was just like, okay, what would I love doing? And I decided to like go pursue that and I've been using the internet like ever since I was seven I had actually made my first online paycheck at 12 and that was one odd rule in our house. Julia McCoy: Like even though so many things were banned, the Internet wasn't. So I could go online at anytime and do whatever I wanted. So that was my outlet besides reading the Internet was my outlet. So I researched having money by 12 and 13 and I was getting paid to do these surveys and I was making like upwards of $400 a month at one period when I was 12. So I went back to that age 19 I'm like, how can I blend the Internet, which is like this amazing playground with what I love doing. And I knew what I loved doing and it was writing. I had been writing ever since. I could remember short stories, you name it, poetry on and on. So I knew like in my heart I was a writer and I had to figure out how to make a living out of that. Julia McCoy: So like that morning at 19 years old, I just started googling and I found this entire industry of freelance copywriting and I'm like, wow, this is a thing. Like I can actually probably make some money in this. I didn't know how much, but I thought it was worth a shot. So that morning I started my first freelance profile and that week I got my first job and then it was just like everything started taking off because I didn't stop working. I was this workaholic sitting there applying for job after job. And back then in 2012, there wasn't a ton of competition in the American space on that freelance profile. So I kind of had this edge, right? I was like one of 10 Americans, the rest were Indian writers on this freelance site. So I was able to just accrue client after client and then it was just practice makes perfect. And through all these writing gigs, I learned how to perfect that craft of online writing. And dropping out of college was a big step to get me jump started on doing that. Shane Barker: Yeah. It's really weird to me that of you know, hey, we're going to cut you off from the whole world but yet we'll give you the internet, which is a gift because you would think I maybe they didn't really understand really the magnitude of the internet or like how much, how much that opens up your eyes. But I also, it sounds like the Internet, not that the Internet saved you, that might be a strong term, but at least it made you understand there was something bigger out there. Right. We kept that alive free. So that's really interesting to me because it's, we use the internet as a younger age too. And then so did my brother and my brother had gotten into some trouble. I don't mean this in a bad like you know, crazy like police, but like on chat rooms and stuff like that. Shane Barker: There was kind of weird stuff, you know, a little check and all that kind of fun stuff. But so the Internet was definitely a cool, fun place. But I mean it can get a little, little seedy shady as well. I mean, it's not that it's changed much. I mean there's plenty of, you can go in a dark chat room and you know, do all kinds of weird stuff and few, you know, whatever it is. The dark side. Yeah, the dark web, um, sounds so scary. But that's interesting. So the Internet was kind of like, you have the access to the internet and that kind of, you know, you're going to nursing school. So my wife is a nurse, so I, I have raised by nurses. Let me tell you this. So she is a nurse for 35 years, my mom was a nurse for 34 years. Shane Barker: And so like I was around nurses, I got nothing but nurse. I'm like, you know, I mean literally at this time I have like my little germs stuff, any means. But I, I definitely, my mom was like, do you know how dirty that doesn't sound like (rattling sound) And I probably wash my hands 10 times a day, like after anything. I mean, I'm eating food, doing anything. I always, so not a Germaphobe, definitely on raised by nurses and so talk night kind of late in her career to said, hey, you know, she was doing sales and said, I really think I want to be a nurse and my wife has such a big heart and she's such a good person or bedside manners, like over the top she gets awards. And I'm not saying that to brag, I'm just saying she's like, I got lucky, she's a great person and just gives a big part. And so the nursing thing, I know that's a giving, giving profession, but it's interesting that halfway through you're just like, hey, you know what? I don't know. This is the calling. This is what I wanted to do. Just because you want to do it since you were four doesn't mean that, you know when you get to 19 it's a little different than when you were four years old. Right? Julia McCoy: Yeah. I think I was translating that wrong. You know, like at four I was like, I want to help people. And My parents were like, oh, that's a nurse. That's the little white cap. And you know the Red Cross, like that's your direction. Shane Barker: It has to be that, right? Julia McCoy: Yeah. Yeah. Like that's all they thought. Right. Shane Barker: But that's interesting. You feel you do, you wouldn't have to waste through school and you kind of realize like wait a second, there's only nine other US writers in this freelance world. I could be number 10 and then take over in the number one spot as we all know about. But that's awesome. It's kind of cool. Like I said, it's funny. So when I say that I'm a writer, I use that like in the loosest terms ever. Like I'm like the bottom and I mean this seriously, like I'm the bottom level of writers. If people like you that like you guys like write books and stuff like a solid one page or like, but after two pages I get D and I look around and probably should be taking more of your courses to be honest. Thank goodness. I have a, a good team that, that's good writer. So when we shout out to my team but for dealing with me, but okay, cool. So the college things you, you jumped out a little early there. Um, when did you start express writer? Like when did this happen? Was that 2012 that you were talking about? Julia McCoy: Yeah, so I think of it as 2012 but I actually formed the business in 2011 but the first year it was really just me picking up writing gigs and writing. So it was like express writer and today's express writers Shane Barker: in the forward thinking then you added yes. That's good because you're like, what? I can guarantee there's going to be more than just me one day. Julia McCoy: Well it's funny because that was a five minute business idea. I was, you know, I was realizing, Oh wow, this is such an incredible way to make money. And I think that's one reason my parents allowed us full access to the Internet was they saw me gravitating towards just like really quickly learning how to make money. And part of the abuse going on was financial abuse. So they would just siphon our money away, like any kind of income we made and put it towards the church and really get us to give all their money to them. So I think that's one reason they let me have access to the Internet. But yeah, so going back to starting express writers, that first year it was just me writing and taking on, you know like Gig after Gig. And what's crazy was I started it while I was still in nursing school and while I was working at McDonald's to pay for my nursing school bills because not only was our money being taken away, but we had to pay for everything ourselves, my sister and I. Julia McCoy: So I had to pay for college myself, figure that out. And so I had to work at McDonald's to make that happen. So there was almost full time at McDonald's. I was working overnights full time at school and then I'm starting this business and this business is quickly becoming full time. Like I'm just picking up client after client. And part of it was, this is crazy to say, but I was meeting the basics of running a business and that was rare I think for that freelance profile, like people just completely miss their deadlines. So whenever I showed up, I wrote quality content, I was automatically better than like a large majority on that platform. So that was really crazy to me. So I think it was three months after just having that idea. Within three months I was making more revenue than I ever made at McDonald's then and it was just going like crazy just taking off. Julia McCoy: So I'm like, okay, maybe this will be a future. And little did I know, you know, eight years later, here I am with this huge business. So I had no idea it would grow that big. But I saw the seeds happening and I saw this income I was starting to make. And the first year it was like, what my parents made. You know, after 15 years of marriage, that was their yearly salary. I was able to make that my first year as a writer. So dropping out of nursing school happens three months after I started my business and I quit McDonald's then as well. I'm like, I might as well just stop bringing in McDonald's. I think I have a future and I'm glad I did that Shane Barker: in a McDonald's you were like, what didn't you train? They're like a crew trainer or something like that. Julia McCoy: Yes. Yeah. It's funny you know that Shane Barker: My team knows it gets deep. I'm tell you, we know that we didn't know about the whole, the whole thing he had gone on before, 21, but anything after that we are on top of it. So just you know, I know everything at this point. Julia McCoy: There's not a lot of index content yet 'til my book comes out on that side of everything. Shane Barker: Soon we'll have a second interview. I have all kinds of other new questions, how the world tell the world. So cool. So you did, you were doing the McDonald's thing and then obviously there's like, hey, I mean something's got to give you like, Hey, I'm making more money doing the writing thing. The freelance thing. And it's so funny where, cause I obviously I've worked with thousands of thousands, maybe thousands of writers and I once again, if you do good work and you're on time, you're beating out 60% of the people out there, sometimes 70, right? It's one of those crazy things. Anyways, I know. As you know, it's always hard to find good writers and then when you do, you do everything in your power to hold them, to keep them on the bus somehow. Right. Keep them happy because the people that are passionate are great writers. It's just awesome. It's awesome when you have that kind of a team. So congratulations on that. So that's been, so about 2012 around is when you guys started doing that. When you brought on the express or writer and then writers after you, you doubled up and found out some other people and work on some stuff there, this whole time. Were you married? When did you get married? Just out of curiosity with Josh, right? Julia McCoy: Yes. Yes Josh. So um, oh gosh, I guess this means I tell you the other half of the story that I didn't tell you yet about how I left the cult. Shane Barker: It's real. Just real nerdy on here folks. Julia McCoy: So let's go back to when I escaped the cult and September of 2012 I had a way out financially with my business, but I actually had a place to go because I met someone online and that person was Josh. So how I met him was on that freelance site. Not only was I the only one of the very few Americans at that time in that category of like SEO, web content writing, but he said, these are his words. I was also like the only pretty face. So he clicked on that. Shane Barker: Oh Josh, he's like, man, we got a beauty. Got Brains too. We've got a really are in good Joshu little sneaky little bastards. I love it. All right, awesome. Shane Barker: He'd be dying. He'd be like, Yup, Shane Barker: Like you know it. And it worked. They work. Julia McCoy: Oh man, that's funny. Yeah, so that's to quote him. That's why he clicked on my profile and hired me. And then, um, with our first call, like once we immediately connected, I think it was over Skype, like that evening he hired me. It was this immediate connection. And it's, it's funny cause you know, you see this in like means movies all the time. It's like instant true love can happen. It can like that's, that's actually a thing. So just this instant connection, I was like, oh I really like this person. And we just connected that first call. And then two weeks into, um, I was writing his content. He had just started this little SEO business. He was in college too and this was kind of his side hustle. So two weeks into writing for him, I kind of like just threw my whole story on him and he was one of the first persons I told outside of my dad's church about the reality of what was going on. Julia McCoy: And he's just like, he was one of my first voices of reason telling me, you know, that's not normal. And I did have another friend in my life who was telling me that too, that I went to nursing school with. But like that was two people. That was it. The only contact I had and these two people were like, that's not normal. So then it just kinda took off to where I was like, well if I left in the middle of the night, would I have a place to stay if I came to see you? And he was like, well sure. So that's what happened. Shane Barker: Stranger danger. That's not stranger danger. We after two weeks in Bam, it could, this could have been, you could have not been on this podcast cause you, I mean, who knows? I'm not saying everything happens for a reason and so you guys are, has got married, everything's cool. So nothing but just interested. After two weeks you're like, listen, Josh is way better than my current situation. So Josh, do you know who you're going to hire me? But I'm also going to live with you for a little bit. And then eventually we'll get married and start a family. No pressure. Julia McCoy: That's literally how it works and we then, you know, we didn't lay the groundwork or say that or like express it yet, but we were just like, I mean, I knew I really liked him and I told him that, I just, I think I love you. And he's like, I think I love you too. We hadn't met in person yet. And then like a month into that conversation, right? I'm moving in with him and then three months later we get married and it was just like, it was so meant to be, as I look back, like there's no way I could have ever planned that or predicted it. It's just how it unfolded. I like there's a higher power overlooking that. That was crazy. Shane Barker: Yeah. There really is. I mean, I'm a firm believer in that. It's like when you see those kinds of things, because it's like if you explained this story to really anybody, they would go, that's crazy. Yeah. That's just the craziest thing ever. But I also think people could truly understand that connection and some people have it instantly. Some people it takes time. But there are some people that have, you know, I know couples that have been together for 50 years. Like oh we met, we got, you know I went and I proposed two weeks later and we're married and that say that. That's crazy cause it's, it worked for them. Right. And it doesn't work for everybody. Right. You're meeting with somebody with for five years and get married and then get divorced in two years. I get that there's no right or wrong or I guess any rhyme or reason to any of these except the fact that you're like, hey I feel this in my heart. Shane Barker: And he felt it in his heart and you're like, Hey, I'm gonna move in there and I'm escaping and call and he says, hey, why not come in my house and let's like, Hey let's rock on. That is a crazy like I'm not, I'm, my Friday is like forever going to be like the rest of my days and be like, listen, this podcast I did today, thank you. Change the name to marketing madness. I just have this too. I did it. You are literally, you might without even knowing that you are the reason I did this because before content that converts was like, oh, it's content and we can talk about different stuff. And I was like, Oh, it'll be fun, but this is it. Like the madness part for me was really important. Like my team was like, oh, madness sounds crazy. And I'm like, have you listened to the podcast? Shane Barker: Okay. Right. Little, sometimes we go to the right and the left and when I, I'm sure when I told you earlier, you're like, little does he know what I have planned for him? Wait until I bring up Josh in the cults and I'm like, man, talking about his, this kind of stuff that gets me up in the morning. This is awesome. Okay, I can't get any better than this and morally half an hour into this thing. And I'm like, man, I'm like, no. I'm doing back flips in my chair, which I'm known podcasts and nobody would know. They would probably hear like a crash or something like that if I did. Okay. Okay, so let's start, I don't even know where to go from this. I'm, we're gonna. I mean at this point I'm not saying anything else we talk about, it's not going to be exciting, but I just, I feel like we're like, this is like now we're going to talk about content and other websites and that's all. Yeah. Shane Barker: Tell me about the p on the calls and Josh and how you guys met and I mean that's, you know, we're good. I mean this is this sizzling right now. All right. We are going to switch gears a little bit. If we have to bring back the cult we can, I have no problems with that whatsoever. So how did, what was that transition? Okay. You have express writers, right? And so you starting that up, you and Josh gets together. Josh is kind of the CTO, is that correct? As he kind of like back in hubs with a lot of the, yes. Okay. Awesome. So you're meaning the writer obviously runs the teams and stuff and he helps with building the websites and the courses and all that fun stuff. Is that kind of a good assessment? Julia McCoy: Yeah, he handles anything that has to do with the stuff I hate, which is not writing and it's web development and web design. So all the front end of everything, my courses, our website, our content shop, um, the system behind the coffee shop. Yeah, that's all him, he's developed, led his team to develop that, which is great. Like that is another white reason I've looked back and I'm just like, this story is even crazier because there's no way I could've done that on my own. So together we've made this whole, you know, empire happen. Shane Barker: Yeah, that's crazy. So it's so funny. So it's, I mean, I have a team and we do some of that stuff. I'm not a huge fan, like putting courses together and all that. I can do it and I've done it for clients, but it's just not, I mean, but now I'm the, I'm twos I got, I'm also not like, I don't want to write all day. I'm like, Ooh, don't want to do that either. Like I'm up for me, I'm like this kind of like, I like speaking and I like, you know, enjoy hanging out with people and I'm not just hanging out because I'm like all I'm doing is hanging out all the time. But, and I joined that like the interaction with folks and kind of like shaking hands and kissing babies is like my, I really, really enjoy that. I'm trying to do more of that in traveling and stuff like that. Shane Barker: That ties back into the business and drives revenue. But it's um, I enjoy that side of it. I'm not a huge like the course thing and all that. Like if I had to actually go in and put that stuff together, like shout out once again to my team that can put those kinds of things together and I just look at it, go, okay that sounds good. We can change some things around. But I am definitely not the like heavy, heavy technical side. Like even hosting with everyone. My guys, I'm like something's going on with a hosting account. Get somebody figured out. Like, cause I'm just not, I go and I look at it, I'm trying to look at this and servers and I'm like, Oh man, I'm going to end up taking down the whole Internet by clicking this. Shane Barker: I try to, like I said, I'm okay. Like I'm about 10% good, but there's, I get into a realm where I'm like, I just can't do that anymore. But so shout ups, Josh again. Josh is a man. He's got at this point, Josh is like my hero. He's got like a Superman Cape on. He comes and saves you and he's all your stuff together and makes Julie look awesome and do all of her fans. That's so accurate. Match what? The whim Josh from the w right now. This is awesome. I'm a huge fan until Josh Shane says hi. Hi. For sure. Julia McCoy: Yeah, we have to get together. Shane Barker: We will. We definitely will. Um, so okay. So tell me about your first book. So your first book was the, so you think you can write right, which I think I had a little forward in there. Julia McCoy: Yes. Yeah. You were one of my early Beta reviewers. Shane Barker: I didn't want to bring it up, but I was an early adapter folks. I was in there in the book early, didn't know about all the details of the cults and stuff like that, which wouldn't have changed the decision or anything that I wrote in that book. I still love Julia with all my heart. So tell us about the book. Tell us what we've got going on there. Julia McCoy: Yeah, yeah, totally. So, um, well, whenever I started out on this journey, it's funny how you explained your personality and I would say I can relate, but I'm really not a people person, but like at the end of the day, I'd rather be hauled up in my office writing. And that's so crazy, right? Like I don't find a lot of people have that in common with me. They're like, wait, you can do that. And they look at me like I'm crazy. Shane Barker: But that's the thing in you, that's what you enjoy, right? So, I mean it's like, but the thing is I can tell with your personality, but it's not you. You're like an introvert and can hold the conversation. Like that's the, I could tell you have a very great personality. I'm glad you know much pressure on video and stuff. You can't be on video and be like an introvert and not be to look at the camera. You know what I'm saying? So you've, I don't know if you've had to break out of that. Maybe used to be that way. I don't know. Julia McCoy: I did, yes. Shane Barker: Oh really? So you had to kind of like break that mold of like Julia McCoy: 2017 was actually the first year I ever even recorded a video and I was looking at that video, it's an eight minute video and it took me like 36 hours just to get through it and get some good content that we could cut and use. That was my first video, you know, two years, three years ago. And today I'm doing a video every other week and it takes me like 20 minutes to shoot. So that just came with time. Shane Barker: That is, you know, that's what was anything that was like what we do.( Exactly)Yeah. Obviously I know you speak as well when I've done that and even now I've talked a little bit about this in the past podcast, just about, you know, getting an anxiety a little bit before you go up on stage and kind of that yeah, that nervous energy. But I know some people like the idea of speaking like you can, Hey, when you go speak on stage you're like, I would rather like fight the Taliban butterknife something. Right? Which is not really, I've never wouldn't try to do that. I don't think I would recommend that. But what I'm saying is is like, you know, like it's people really and for me I feel like I do good on stage. I feel like I can always do better. There's always that next level. Shane Barker: But you know, if people knew the anxiety or what I feel before I go onstage or you wouldn't know it. And I'm, once I'm telling everybody this, I'm almost losing my mind. I'm on the outskirts of like, but you wouldn't know when I get on stage, I feel like I still have, other than that, I talk fast, but I just naturally talk fast. But I think it's, it's one of those weird things of like right before, in fact, I had a guy who was going on ontraport when I spoke at one of their, the events, a keynote that I did over there, they actually sent me, when a came the bag was like, hey, how are you doing? I was like, Oh, I'm doing good. Which is a total lie. I'm not, you know, mentally I'm like, Oh, I'm losing my mind. Am I going to pass out? Shane Barker: I'm like, I'm going through it. All 19 different things are going in my head. And he goes, Hey, I just said I'm doing good. And he goes, you know what, I have a buddy of mine that says he takes a shot of Tequila or two before he goes on stage every time. And now he's been doing it for five years or whatever and he's totally good. And so now I've gotten my head, I'm like, should I drink some Tequila? Like should I have had a few shots before I got up on stage, which I haven't done yet but I'm, I don't know if I'm going to, I don't, I don't know if that's going to be in the mix. But it is interesting with the different types of fears I have, so I've talked about this as well. Like I have some students, because I teach at UCLA, have some students in one, I'm telling you this story is talking about overcoming things and the video thing. Shane Barker: Obviously you did eight minutes and it took you like 38 hours or whatever it was to be able to get enough of a good for that. I, my first blog posts, I still have that on my website and I showed that to my students and I go, what do you think those blog posts? And they're like, oh my God, it's terrible and this, that and the other. And I go, it is, it's absolutely terrible. In fact, I should probably de index that I should probably get rid of it. But at the end of the day, I want to show them, that was the point where I started. Yeah. You don't have to be a Juliet style writer. Right. To be able to like have, you know, it was like just getting started. And the same thing with you in video. Like you're looking at this thing, oh my God, this is 38 hours. Shane Barker: And Josh was like, man, this is not going good. Right. We gotta figure this out. We got 38 hours of footage here. I've got to really cut this thing down. It's you got started though. You did that. I think overcoming that is a lot of times for a lot of, it's very difficult. But I look at it like with speaking, I look at like every time that I go on stage, I'm 1% better, right? So I've got to do an a hundred times to be able to get that for you. Video. Once again, hey, the video guy, that sucks. I was 38 hours of drama, stress, whatever I had to go through. But now you're doing a video, you know, a day. Right? And it's like it takes you 20 minutes and you kind of get the content together. Now you just knock it out. Shane Barker: So I just think it's interesting of like why, I mean you're like the poster child of pushing through and like, you know, breaking out of things and doing things that you feel uncomfortable with like leaving cults and stuff like that and underwrite everything. I mean that's, yeah, I mean that's not a, I mean we've all, it's typical Friday activity you can call this weekend and probably equipped to bring up the call. I'm probably gonna have some people pull up in a black vehicle or something. Come get me. But it's okay if this is my last podcast, I want to thank you, Julia for me last. Yes, I do appreciate it. So let's, let's jump to your second book. So you have another one called practical content strategy and marketing, right? And that was that, was that correct? Julia McCoy: The end of 2017 Shane Barker: So tell us a little bit about that book. What was the rationale from, I mean other than your looks like you're just saying, hey listen, if you want to do content marketing and you kind of probably give out a lot of the secrets in the way that you were successful and stuff like that. I kind of give us a little background on that book. Shane Barker: Yeah, totally. Well, the book was actually the result of writing a course and the course, this massive project I undertook in 2017 it was over 400 pages of content that became videos, became takeaway sheets. So out of that 450 pages of content, I'm like, I have to repurpose this into something. And I'm like, why don't I just make a book? So I just took all of the scripts and scripts and masses of content that was a curriculum and reframed it, took another, you know, whatever it was, 150 crazy hours. I am like such a workaholic with content. Like I will sit down and forget to get up. Yeah, Shane Barker: okay. This just in folks. No, seriously sit down and she's telling you that she's a workaholic. You and Josh have to schedule time to see each other. Like just tell me like, is it like Tuesday? You're like choosing between eight and eight 30 we're going to have coffee together. Julia McCoy: So I try to do that to him and he hates it and he's like, okay let's go to lunch. And I hate that because I am not like I can't do things randomly because I work. I'm just like scheduled and I train. Yeah, exactly. He balances me though cause that's good for me. Shane Barker: Did you do so does he know when he has to get you from the computer? Have you ever scratched or anything like that when you're typing and then you, he's like, all right honey, we need to go. Have you scratched him or anything? And I'm not saying aggressively, I'm just saying maybe like a pure reaction. Like a cat is like get off. I'm like working Julia McCoy: more like a cross between a growl and a, Shane Barker: okay, I see that, I see that. I kind of liked that. So it's kind of like a warning. It's like a warning shot. Like, Hey, if you go and grabbed my keyboard or my arm, like a lunch, I will, I will scratch your eyes out. Julia McCoy: Or if he like tries to shut it when I'm working on my laptop around way too late, 1130 and he's like trying it out for me. And I'm like... Shane Barker: Not today Josh, not today. Josh. That's interesting. So I, we do, we have some, see you and are very common in a multiple way. So I used to be a crazy workaholic like you, I don't think you're recovering by any means. I think you're still there. I used to work crazy 16-20 hours and I mean it was another business that I had that was very well, I say very, it's time intensive when you own your business is always time intensive. So to say that I had to work 20 hours is an absolute lie because I've got to work 12 and it wasn't, I was doing brain surgery where people are going to die if I didn't show up to work. But the workaholic thing for me, I'm now in recovery and the sense that I, I have a team and I, I've learned to delegate and do some things. Shane Barker: Not saying you don't delegate because I know you have a big team. I've learned to like, I don't know, just to try to even that out a little more because I was really, really, really bad. I mean, I was 30 pounds overweight. I was just not eating good. I was energy drinks a lot of stuff that was really bad. But I've just kind of like kind of changed it and I'm not saying you need to change that because you enjoy writing, you're phenomenal at it and you really enjoy like going to that next level. And I do too. But it's funny, it's, it's tapered off a little bit for me, you know? I mean, I still have a thousand projects. There's a lot of stuff. But for you? I would say comparing me to you too. You seem a lot more focus to me and maybe you're not. Shane Barker: Maybe it's just the way that it seems like you're like, I can imagine you like when you were a sec, I'm going to get this project done. It's going to take three weeks. I mean, I could imagine that it's like, you know, even the dogs looking at you like, Hey, are we going to walk this week? Like what's, you know, like what are we like, I kind of feel like you forgot about me. If you're there writing the keyboards on fire, I'm like, it's, you know, what do we, you need a fire extinguisher or something. So, no, but that's awesome though. I think that's to be that A to B driven, but then also to have that kind of focus. Laser focus is difficult. I, for me, it's difficult, right? I mean, I can focus on things, but I can't, like if I had to sit down and do like, hey, this whole week and you're going to write 200 pages, that's not going to happen. Like I, there's not enough medication from a pharmacy that could get shamed and a regular pages. Right. But you seem like you're just hyper focused like that. Is that kind of your personality? Julia McCoy: Yes. Yeah, it kind of is. Like if there's something that I say, okay, I really want to make this happen. And what's crazy is that even though like I'll put my sights on something and I'll say, okay, I'm gonna make this thing happen. Whether it's like building this online course that no one's ever built before or launching this business or launching this service that no one's thought of yet. Like that's how I try to think, right? Like how can I be at the front in the industry and do something no one has ever done. So that's part of my thought process. And then the other thought is I have a hundred percent chance of failure. Like I think that every time I launch something, I actually think I'll probably just ride this out until it dies. And it may not last long. That's okay. And I kind of like make my peace with that. Julia McCoy: And that was how I started express writer is like I spent no more than five minutes now today, you know, eight years later with this like huge business. I wish I had spent a little more time on my brand name, but it's work so I can't get too mad. But I started everything, you know, with a hundred percent chance of failure and just kind of like through that enabled me to throw perfection to the wind. Like I don't care about being perfect, I just care about getting this thing out and doing it well. Not to say, you know, I don't want to do a crappy job. Like I'd spend so many hours editing my books. I'm probably crazy book perfectionist, but it's just like I don't care if this thing fails or succeeds. And so that kind of mentality has strangely really worked in my favor to just help me. Okay, I have no limits. I can just sit here and create, create, create. And if it doesn't succeed, I'm not going to be upset because I already have, that's not my goal. My goal is to get this out and to do a really great job doing it and kind of enjoy the process. And then I just am able to get through it, meet my deadlines and get it out. And then it's off to the races. And then I'm just like trial and error testing out all my marketing. Shane Barker: You're like a 1% are in that. Like the hardest part. And once again we kinda talked about UCLA and the students and stuff like that is literally just starting, right? Just doing it and it doesn't have to be perfect. I think that's really the goal. The goal really should be, if you're looking for it to be perfect, that you'll never launch. It just never will. A picture you'll have, right? Or You have whatever you're producing that you're just as like, oh, and then I think the biggest thing is what people worry about is failure. What are People gonna Think? Oh my God, what is this? And the fact that you're able to somewhat disconnect from that. I mean there's still is probably something there like, God, I really want it to succeed. But if it doesn't, I'm okay with that. You are, it's kind of funny. Shane Barker: You are the way you think is like when I go to a casino, like so, and this is kind of, and I'm sure this is funny and kind of like, but literally it is like, you know, I'm like, listen, I've got this money, like I've got $1,000 and I probably shouldn't have said the number cause no, my wife's like so, and that's what you spend when you go to Casino. And that's good to know. So I'll say, let's say it's $1,000 and I'll say, listen, I just know that the end of the day that I'm donating this, I'm literally gonna donate this to the casino. They're going to give me maybe two free drinks, maybe I get to see tickets to a show, but probably gonna be free tickets to come back here another night so I can lose more money. God bless them. So what I know is I know that I'm going, they're not thinking I'm gonna lose cause a lot. Shane Barker: I mean I can win as well and I'd have one. But the idea of it is, is like I go with a peace offering of knowing that, listen, if I win, that's awesome. If I don't, then that's what I was going to do. Like I had a good time that weekend. And so it's kind of, and it's a little, it's different, right? But it's kind of the same of like it that mindset because if I go tight, if I don't win, I'm not going to be able to pay my mortgage. And that's true. That's a problem. Right? Last time I checked. So what would with changing that mindset for you I think is interesting and I think that's difficult for most people to do because it comes down to like nobody wants to fail. But the way, and I think the way you look at failure to me is, is Kinda the way that I do is like it's only failure if you didn't learn something. Shane Barker: Right? So you, if you say, listen, if I don't, this course doesn't make $1 million, then I'm a failure in your first course, you're probably going to be a failure. Like just goes. Because it's the idea is just most people's first course or first business or first anything failed. That's just how that goes. And the way that you get to success, the way that I become more comfortable speaking is just speak a hundred times. I get 1% better each time, which is my own numbers in my own head. The same thing with businesses. I, you know, people ask me like, what do I need to do to succeed. I go fail as many times as you can in a row 10 times, 30 times. But I think for people that are like, oh, that's like terrible advice. Like why would I want to fail? Shane Barker: It's like, yeah, but you look at it like you're going to be perfect the first time. Like anybody that you look as a role model, they failed and they either tell you about it or they're in denial that they failed because that it's bs cause they have trust me, they have. And so I think that's important where it's like don't be afraid of failure. Like failure can. It's your friend. In fact, it's, it's funny, one of my clients, his name's Chris. Rodney's a inspirational speaker. He was on the Rock, the Titan Games. He actually has seven fingers. He's a power lifter and crazy dude like diabetic, good looking dude. My wife's like, Chris is super hot. I'm like whatever, like quit looking at my screen, you know. Um, but look him up. His name's Chris Root. And the reason I'm telling you about Chris is that we're starting a company called "fail forward" and the idea of fail forward is we have shirts we're doing is to fail forward. Shane Barker: Like the idea is when you fail, but you're going forward, like be okay with that. Right? The word failure is very scary to people, but for me it's like it's okay to fail, right? As long as she learned something. If you go out of the experience and go, I didn't really learn much, I'm not really sure what happened then that's a problem. Right? You should learn something from that. Um, no failure. You know, you don't want to fail 50 times if you're a brain surgeon in a row. Cause that means you probably, people are dying. So you probably want to maybe look at your profession potentially. But for me and for other stuff in life, I think everybody has that story of like how you failed and how it moves you forward to that next step. And everything's foundational. You know, I look at the path that I've taken that anybody's taken, you fail, you fall, you do this, it's, you know, you get back up, you do this, you do this, you go back. Shane Barker: And I say, I mean you just, you get better and better with time. And so I think it's important mindset and it's awesome that you have that mindset of like, you know, deep down inside you want it to be successful, right? I mean, we all want that, right? But I'm at peace with, if it's not perfect, I'm at peace with, if it doesn't make $1 million because it's still great, you know, especially with like somebody like your stuff that you're in the limelight in the sense of, you know, people senior, right? And you've been doing this for a long time and you're a thought leader. It's really interesting that at the end of the day you're like, listen, I'm okay if this does fail. And I think people at different levels of what failure is in their mind, that could be financial, that can be acceptance, that can be whatever it is, but the differences is anybody can talk trash about something you put out, but you're doing it right. Shane Barker: You're putting it out there for the world to see. And I think that's really interesting. I love that perspective because most people don't, most people that are talking trash online about books or whatever, they don't have their own book. Right? Yeah. And maybe even they're a phenomenal writer, but they, it's scary when you put yourself out there for judgment for people to read what you've put out there. Um, and it gets easier over time. And I think you're at that spot. I just, I loved that, that mindset of like, I'm just gonna put it out there and it doesn't have to be perfect and that you think that way. Cause most of the time it's a perfectionist thing with people that I talk to. It's like, you know, it's just so hard cause I don't want him worried about this and worrying about that. Shane Barker: And it's like man, there's a scene on that. Can't remember the scene. It's something like the only way that you can guarantee to fail is not put it out. There's something like that. It's a mindset thing of like the only guarantee is that something. But if you don't put it out then nobody will know about it or something about that. It's obviously a lot more familiar, lot more articulate than what I just said. It's just, it's just interesting. I just, I love, like I said, I love that perspective on it. Hmm. Thank you. Yeah. I mean that's phenomenal. It's kind of cool. This is why I love the podcast cause I just, I get to know people. It's like now we're going to be like BFFs and hang out in Austin and have Sam, I'll bring the wife out. We'll have a good time. Yeah. So we will trust me. Um, so what are you passionate about? Like what do you, I mean obviously writing, I think that's like a given. Like, what else are you passionate about? Are you like writing's number one Shane? Like that's it. It's like writing Josh and the dog might even be number two. Josh's definitely up cause I know he's in the top food for sure. Shane Barker: Like what are you most passionate about? Like what does that thing other than writings it's very evident. Julia McCoy: Yeah. Well I think I'm especially thinking about how my career has kind of evolved. You know the original goal was okay, how can I make money writing and that was just the like the one idea that started at express writers and today after eight years of doing that, it's kind of grown into what I'm pursuing today and this will tie into the new brand I'm launching, which I'm sure we'll talk about later is how do we, how do I produce? Or even if it's like how can I help clients produce either for my blog or a client, how can I produce content that's going to bring in real growth? And so that is like that lights me up. That gets me so excited. I am in like my favorite tools almost every day looking up opportunities. And if I can find this opportunity around a phrase of words that no one has cornered yet, you know, no big site has grabbed that keyword and stood on it yet with great content. I'm like, Oh yes, go mine. And I'm like way too excited about stuff like that. So that is something I'm really passionate about these days is how do I use data and uncover these opportunities for content that's just gonna like kill it, crush it in the rankings, bring in tons of readers and really just like build a community around that piece of content because people love it so much. And that's an art and a science. That's not simple stuff. Shane Barker: No it's not. So you're talking about more like long tail keywords that you're like, wait a second, this is something that the dogs haven't already taken on that you're not gonna be able to push them out of the way, but you're like, listen, as a medium dog coming up to the big dogs, like this is something where I can jump in that spot. So I get it. I know that that is, it is the keyword side of things and you know SEO and that kind of thing is definitely a science. I'm with you on. When you find the key, a long tail keyword, you're like ha ha ha a search volume, not a lot of competition. You're like super exciting. You know? And I go tell my wife, I'm like look at this. And she's like, I'm a nurse so I'm like your long tail keyword. I'm like, no, it's really exciting. She goes, I know, I know. Good luck with your lumens. Hopefully the content comes out correct. Cool. So what are your, your three favorite like content marketing tools? Like are there some tools that you're like, oh these are tools I can't live without? Like what are those? Julia McCoy: Yes, those three would have to be a sumo would be one. So that's like data research, right? And that's, I'm always using that tool. If I'm writing for a guest blog, so like I do a column at search engine journal, so I'll type in their domain, hit search, and then I'll just study what's top shared. And like where it's been shared at. And then I'll study like the structure, the topic of those posts, maybe what's going around on social media about those posts, the author, and then I'll just try to reengineer, okay, how can I craft content on their site that'll get in the top. So both sumo is great for that. Like there is so many opportunities with both sumo. And then the other second tool I'm really loving these days, um, it's newer, I think it's only three or four years old, is a suite of tools by mangles and that's just mango. Julia McCoy: And then o l s they're like a team of a grassroots really smart people in Russia and they just built these tools. One of them is called keyword finder and they've launched a couple other ones. Site profiler I think is another one. And it just gives you all kinds of insights on one dashboard. That's why I really love it. Like you don't have to click around, everything's right there and it kind of looks like you're driving a car. Like you have your here at score on the right and it kind of looks like a speed signal. So that tool is really amazing. Mangles suite of tools and cured finder by them is one of my favorites that they have. And then my third tool would have to be a, this is tough cause I'm thinking of two right now. Do we want to go with paid or free should that, does that matter? Shane Barker: I usually don't do this, but you can bring up four, I know I usually like to keep really strict podcasts but I'm like you know what, listen here I'm going to break the rules that I usually don't because usually we talk about just strictly marketing and conduct. Like I don't ever break the rules and go outside of that today. You can do four, let's go ahead and I want to make sure we leave relieve the stress that we're having right now. So go ahead and we got two more tools. Julia McCoy: Okay, let's do it. Okay. So number three would be SCM rush. And that's just because like their data is so accurate and sometimes I'm keyword finder. While I love it, it will give you some data on some really weird or like tiny little niche keywords. So that kind of data, you can always find an SCM rush. Like there's so much data they have uncovered, they're just amazing. And also for SEO tracking, I'm always in there firstname.lastname@example.org have today? Where are we at in the future snippets, what kind of special rankings do we have? So that's a great tool for SEO position research and then really accurate here at data. And the forced hole is a headline optimizer and you might know this toll. It's the advanced marketing institutes, emotional marketing value headline analyzer. They really need to shorten that title. Julia McCoy: It tells you, um, with a score from, I don't know where it starts, I know it's above zero, but it goes up to like 80%. And the score tells you how empathetic, spiritual, and intellectual your headline is. And depending on like what mark at your m, you know, if you're like an health and wellness or alternative medicine, you might want to go more spiritual and appeal to that side. And for me and marketing, like I try to go for empathetic headlines. So that tool will tell you like exactly where your headline scores and sometimes you can just like add one little word in there and you get like a 30% higher score. So playing around with that is awesome. And that's how I get most of my blog headlines. I run through that tool. Shane Barker: And what was the name of that? So you like gave me some tools I've never heard of, which I love. So what was the name of that going to look it up? Julia McCoy: Yes. Yeah, it's Ami. The easiest way to get to it I think is just Ami Institute and that's just a m institute.com forward slash headline and that'll get you right to there. Really long titled Tool, the emotional marketing value headline analyzer. Shane Barker: Awesome. Well, we're going to include that. Obviously in the bottom of the podcast, we do a little transcription of this whole Flint thing and get that on there. So I love the tools cause there was literally two swelled to that I've never heard of. So I'm like, this is why it gets interesting. I'm like, I can't wait to test some of the headlines. They're gonna be like 7%. I'm like, no, no. I used to, but it changed one word. It could have been 37. Hang it. So tell me a little bit when your new project, you guys, what does it content hacker.com Julia McCoy: yes, yes, yes. Shane Barker: Tell me, cause I, I've done a little research but kind of tell me what you got going on there. What's your plan with that? What's the goal here? Julia McCoy: Yes. So that is, well, um, I love, I love that right there. So that is one of my most strategic ventures I'd say that I've ever put together. Like I've spent just a month strategizing this thing and we're looking at a Jew launch date. I don't know for sure that they probably mid or late June, but we've put like so much together, the site is going to be, so my goal with the site is to really help grow focused concept markers. Like that's what constant hacker means. Garrett Moon of CoSchedule first defined it with um, I think tenex content, um, his book there about how to produce really good content marketing. So Garrett, new coin, that term, um, back in 2000, I forget, I think it's like 2000 or something like that. So he first positioned it and I saw that term years ago. Loved it. And I've got to meet Garrett Min and person at concept marketing world, love him and his team. Julia McCoy: So we kind of like think of like already in terms of content marketing. So I was thinking about this brand. I've had the idea for a while and it's just like a personal brand that I can create really informative guides. Just sharing what I've learned through eight years of doing content in a way that now really produces revenue. Like you can tie, I can almost always tie my content to a revenue producing goal. And I see that missing so often in content marketing like as a whole. And I can't just, I can't create the service or that knowledge area in express writers I think, I mean I could, we do on the blog but this brand, I want something that's 100% devoted to that. So how could we help content marketers produce and focus on growth? So the first year, and I have kind of like this three year goal mapped out for the brand, which is kind of crazy. Like I never map out this far. It's usually by the seat of my pants. So for this I've done like this three year projection. The first year we're just going to like build resources and then my courses and resources will be just really informative. Blogs, interviews, features and stories in content marketing that'll inspire content marketers and help them know not only like balance in content marketing but balance in life. And you're definitely someone I want on our early round of interviews. So Shane Barker: you will be a part of that. Tell me more about this guy, Shane Barker. You're going to interview. I want to know about this guy. Yes. Talking about podcast or podcast sweet trades and that's what I'm talking about. Julia McCoy: It's the best. Yeah, but yeah, constant hacker and we were able to score that domain, which I was really surprised. Shane Barker: I was just going to ask you that. Like how much did you pay for that? Like you don't have to give me a number. How did you pull that off? Because I trust me, I know do I used to own five to 600 domains where my wife is like, how are you going to, how are you gonna develop all those? And then finally there was one year that she was like, I'm going to, not really, she didn't say she was going to leave me, but she was like, I don't understand why you're, there's only $10 a month until you have five or 600 and then it's like, where are you? Where are you? Where are you doing this? So I got rid of them. It's not a, it's not a habit anymore, but like tell me about content hacker. Like how'd you get that? Julia McCoy: Yeah. So it was for sale and it was for sale at $5,000 and we tried to put in a little bit of a lower bid, but they weren't accepting it at all. It was just an auction through go daddy. I don't even know who the seller was actually. I think it was anonymous auction, but we were able to buy it for $5,000 and that was a chunk of money to pay for a domain. Like I've never spent that much on a domain. My marketing costs less, but it was totally worth it because that is such a great domain. Shane Barker: It is. It's, you know, so it's funny, I've only sold of those, all those domains cause I was telling my wife, Oh, I'm going to sell these domains are, we're going to retire, this is going to be great. And she's like, yeah, it sounds great. And I just, I sold a handful of them. The only, I've sold one domain name sold for $7,000 Oh wow. Yeah. So that was my, that's my claim, but it literally, that happened like like six months ago. So anything before that I made, I literally was losing my pants on buying domain names. I was going to resell him, just one of those and now I look at them and a lot of them were like kind of funny ones. I'd buy them and I'd laugh like I can't even say what they were on the podcast. Like some of them that might've been a little inappropriate, but I was like, hey Babe, I just bought this. Shane Barker: And she goes, you have a sickness for buying domain names. I'm like, no, it's great. Donating five or 600 that's pretty crazy. Now I'm at like probably 40 or 50 maybe a little less now. But yeah, there was, I mean, anytime I thought of I'd had idea, I would go and buy the domain names and it was just, it was a sickness. But anyways, it's between private registration and all that. I was spending way too much money on private domain is when I was like, you're not, you can't develop 500 websites. And I'm like, oh, I'm good. If I really focus like Julia, watch me do it. I swear to God, I'll put up a site every, every four minutes. It never happened. My wife was right again. So anyways, it happens. All right, so we're at the end of this thing. So we've got some, these last few questions are going to be really hard questions. So I just want to make sure we kind of prep you up for the, the big ones at the end. Oh, what is she, I know, I know. Brace yourself. What is your favorite holiday destination spot? Like where is like, you're like Josh and I want to go back to or I've never been to, where's that spot? Julia McCoy: Yes. Okay. So does it have to be either or where we want to go or where we've been? Shane Barker: Come on, sister hit me like, no, it could be, let's talk. Julia McCoy: Okay. So yeah, I saw this question come through, so I was like, okay. Where I've been, so we went to, I, you know, I Google everything, right? So I'm googling vacations, researching online, looking up the prettiest speech in America. So that's, that was my goal last summer and I found it and it's called Sanibel Island, Florida. So we went there and it's like, um, you have to take this three hour drive once you're like in Orlando to get the Sanibel and once you're there it's kind of like a whole nother country. Like it's not even like you're in Florida anymore. It's pretty crazy. You go over this bridge and then you're on this island that's still connected to Florida. And then if you keep driving on the island, which like both sides or the ocean, right. And you'd have ocean on one side ocean on the other and you're driving down there for like five miles straight. Then you hit Sanibel island seashore. And it was just incredible. It kind of looked like the middle of some gorgeous Caribbean beach and it was right there in Florida. So definitely have to go back there already. Like making plans for our next visit. And where we want to go is China, Thailand, which is like a huge place for ex-pats and really good food for really cheap, really good coffee for like 50 cents a cop. So all that really excites me. You can spend not a lot of money and get great, great food. Shane Barker: I've been to Thailand, I didn't go to Chiang Mai and my brother and dad went there and so they had an awesome time. I was in a movie and then I was obviously in Bangkok, so I had a great Chiang. Chiang Mai is a place that's definitely on my list. Like they, my dad, brother let me, so when we're there together and then I had to go back to the u s and get some stuff done and they just kept going. They're like, oh you missed out this green spot. And I was like, whatever, screw you guys. You know, now here I am back to work. And you guys were like having so much fun. We get a massage every three minutes and it cost two bucks. And I'm like, oh Chiang Mai. And then this is the last big question. If I was, let's say I win the lottery or something, right? Shane Barker: And I'm like, obviously Julia, since we've been friends for so long, I give you a card and I say, here goes a car. It's got let's say $50,000 on it. You can max it out. Like I'm like, merry Christmas, happy birthday, all that fun stuff. Where would you go? Where would you take that card and where would you go to Max out that credit card? Oh, well I'm going to go, I don't have to go to one of my favorite places on earth and that's Barnes and noble. I know you're not going to be clothing. She's not gonna like people are like, oh, I wouldn't, you know, get an experience. I'd take some random kids here. And you're like, no Barnes noble. Buy Some books folks. No, it's true dominance right now. Oh, that's funny. Oh, that's so funny. You knew that. Yeah. I feel like that's a boring answer, but gosh, Barnes and noble, it's like, it's like my little slice of heaven on earth. Julia McCoy: I'm like, oh, books. And I opened them and I smelled them. And my husband's like, what are you doing with that book and your face, Shane Barker: Barnes and noble, $50,000 of bar. You might keep it going. You might keep Barnes and noble. That's true. I might keep that Julia nobles or something like that. Chile is maxed out. Credit card from Shane Parker once again, free books for Julia just to make her happy. Well Julia with this, this was awesome. This was, I mean this is literally, this is the reason why I had the podcast cause I just, I love this little hour of chat with people and you find out all kinds of interesting facts. Thank you for sharing the Julia McCoy: professor still sitting down Shane Barker: and one I'm doing it well you don't even know if I am sitting down. I might've felt back up. I mean at this point it's was at this point. Um, but I thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Julia McCoy: Oh you're so welcome. Thank you for having me. Shane Barker: Absolutely. And let me know if you need any help with the near future stuff you've got going on. I'm looking forward to checking that out. Julia McCoy: You will hear from me. Shane Barker: Alright, I can't wait. I'll be around. Have a great rest of your day. Julia McCoy: You too. Thank you so much. All right, thanks. Bye.