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Key Takeaways

[4:33] Sandra’s Family and Childhood

[10:28] Sandra Talks About Committing to Your Goals

[15:42] Sandra’s Parents

[21:13] How Sandra Started Conversion Minded

[27:00] Building a Business Marketing Strategy

[28:27] How Sandra Built a $6 Million Business

[31:11] Business Challenges

[36:43] Sandra’s Businesses

[38:25] The Importance of Delegation

[39:38] Sandra’s Favorite Tools

[42:20] Advice for Entrepreneurs

[47:47] Sandra’s New Project

[51:37] Random Fact About Sandra

Building a business from scratch is a monumental task. Sandra Clayton has been there and done that. On Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness Podcast, she revealed how she built a successful temporary tattoo business worth $6 million in just 2 years.

She also has some great advice for budding entrepreneurs and marketers who are looking to build a successful business. Here are some nuggets of wisdom on entrepreneurship that she shared on the podcast:

1. Break Down Your Goals

For any business strategy, you need to start with defining your goals. You need to know what you want to achieve. Only if you are clear about your goals can you think of strategies to achieve them.

However, it can be easy to get overwhelmed by lofty goals. Let’s say you want your website to get 100,000 visitors per month. If you are just starting out, achieving this goal may seem intimidating.

Here is an idea to keep your focused: break down your goal into smaller goals. That way, you can make sure you stay on the right track.

2. Pay Attention to Gathering Resources

One of the biggest challenges for small businesses is the lack of resources. Before you start out or plan to scale up, spend some time planning your resources.

It’s important to pay attention to raising capital and conducting market research. Based on your findings, develop a pragmatic business plan. It’s essential to be prepared for all of the hiccups along the way.

Careful planning is at the center of building a successful business. While it doesn’t guarantee that your business will become successful, it improves your chances significantly.

3. Delegation Is Important

As an entrepreneur, you will be required to don several hats. One day you may be looking at marketing while on the other you may have to work on product development. But it may not always be possible to do everything on your own, especially once your business starts to grow.

That’s where delegation comes in. Find a specialist to do specific tasks that you may not excel at. Of course, they won’t do it exactly the way that you do them. But that shouldn’t be a limitation. You can always provide training to your employees.

By delegating a few tasks, you can save your own time. That’s the most important resource for any entrepreneur. You can invest that time into planning or into handling other aspects of the business.

What do you think about these tips on entrepreneurship and business growth? Please share your views in the comments section below.

Full TranscriptExpand to view full transcript

Shane Barker: Welcome to the podcast. I am Shane Barker, your host in  Shane Barker’s Marketing Madness Podcast! Today, my guest, Sandra Clayton, is going to talk about how she managed to build a $6 million business in 2 years.

She is the Founder of Conversion Minded, a company that helps entrepreneurs grow their online businesses. She is a writer, designer, and marketer who is passionate about driving growth for small businesses.

Listen to her as she shares her experiences as an entrepreneur and discusses how she tackled various professional challenges throughout her journey.

Shane Barker: So tell us a little bit Where did you grow up at?

Sandra Clayton: I grew up in Brick New Jersey. I don't know if you're familiar with the East Coast but that is you know, kind of it's become a bigger town now but back in the day it was just a small little town shore town your Point Pleasant so beach days were the thing where I grew up. That's where I am from.

Shane Barker:  Sounds like a rough life out there in the beach life in New Jersey. Man sign me up for that a weekend or something? I said this isn't this is I'm going back into a past life. How far is Lawrenceville, New Jersey from you? Because I've no idea.

Sandra Clayton: Lawrenceville is a way.

Shane Barker:  Is it?

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, not quite it I would call Brick more like central south. Not quite it's not even Toms River yet. So, it's not terribly it's about I'm in New Jersey City right now. So just outside of the city for me to get back down there because I still have family down there. hour and 15.

Shane Barker:  Okay, well, the only reason I bring that up is because in my past life or my beginning life I don't know what it would be. I used to open restaurants. And so, I open a restaurant in Lawrenceville, New Jersey or Lawrenceville, New Jersey, not my restaurant, but for you know, at that point I was doing corporate work. And so, we opened up and it use to be a Chevy's Mexican restaurant, which I'm sure I think they went bankrupt now, hopefully not because of me, I thought I did a good job of opening the restaurants.

I was the data guy so if I messed up the data, maybe that's where they close but either way they're not around. But it's interesting. I was that's the only thing I know about well, I've been to New Jersey and stuff but in Lawrenceville was I was there for about two weeks and stuff and so anyways, that's the only part of New Jersey that I know of. Yeah, but I would I mean I feel like I...

Sandra Clayton: You guys gets a bad rep there's a lot of different parts of Jersey and I like right now I happen to be in the industrial part of it so every time that we, New Wark is the airport for us every time we're coming over that highways like, “oh look at the garbage kid.” Now we are past that so I think that's great.

Shane Barker:  Well, I'm I think people you know the perception of it because people will see on whether the media, whether it be shows or you know this and so they think they automatically think that that women gets. That's anything right people watch media and watch news and go, Oh, that's the way it must be like whether it's true or not true. And, you know, so I think that California gets a bad rap on some stuff. And some people think like I remember going to visit once again many months ago, going to a church camp. I don't know how I got there, I'm sure they probably told me I couldn't come back after that but went to a church camp. And they were like, oh, you're from California. This was in Colorado and they're like, “Oh, you must surf to school.” And I was like, “course, bro,” because all I do is surf. I look at my milky white skin and my red hair. Like I'm a surfer, for sure. I'm like, I couldn't tan if I wanted to, like the sun and I do not get along. I mean, I would love like the idea of the sun. But they were like, yeah, you must surf, and I'm told was like, No, the only reason I don't surf to school is because I can't fit my surfboard in my locker. And I'm like, Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, good conversation, guys. I mean, this was probably 25 years ago, but it was kind of cute people like, did you have you see Pamela Anderson, like, of course, like Pam I used to be together. Yeah, that's right.

Sandra Clayton: We are always doing cafe lunches.

Shane Barker:  She loves me. She loves the fair skin white guys that don't surf for some reason just she has an epiphany for them so.

Sandra Clayton: One time I was on a plane with a guy and I was going out to California and he was coming from California to New Jersey. So, we were sitting next to each other. And I almost I was like biting my tongue not to talk about the stereotypes of, you know, Californians and he started going right into the stereotypes of East Coast and I'm like, “well, alright, let's have that.”

Shane Barker:  Here we go. Yeah, time to have the conversation. I've been waiting, looking for the green light. Well, I think that's the thing is that it's, you know, they are stereotypes. And that's the thing is that I used to joke around my wife about stereotypes and say, Well, you know, but some of them are true, like, you know, now that's not right. I am like no, but you wouldn't say it's, I mean, I've seen all Jersey, New York this way or all Californians are this way but there is there's something to it. Right. And there's something behind that.

Sandra Clayton: Close in there yeah.

Shane Barker:  So, tell us a little bit about your Jersey upbringing, right. Beautiful Jersey. Like how big is your family? Did you have a pretty big family growing up? Lot of brothers and sisters or just you?

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, we had 2. I have two sisters and two brothers. So, it's a decent size. Yeah, yeah, we had a lot of fun. And we lived on this dirt road. So, it was kind of you know, you could back in the days, and you could ride your bike, kids could ride their bike, or all these other friends on the block. And, you know, it was since it was a dead end, it was like totally safe environment. So that was, it was a lot of fun.

Shane Barker:  Yeah. So, I'll explain I don't know how many younger adults that I have. So, I'll explain what a bike is because right now I'm trying to think what I could tell from an iPad perspective what a bike would be. No, I'm just kidding, totally kidding. Some of these things we use to actually outdoor activities and stuff like.

Sandra Clayton: Right actually get up, get out.

Shane Barker:  That's crazy. It's a whole new world you're like on two wheels and...

Sandra Clayton: You got to experience it yeah.

Shane Barker:  Yeah, its yeah, good luck go out there and you know, put the iPad down and go rent a bike or something. Yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy world. So, you had a good size family there and then was it. How is it family pretty protective over, where you younger older?

Sandra Clayton: I was right in the middle and so it was, you know, I was in the middle and I kind of took on the role of teaching my younger brothers how to you know, they're ABC's and stuff like that. So yeah, it was right in the middle. And one of the things about growing up in my family was that we had, we actually had a nice lot, we had two-acre land, right. So, we did everything ourselves. So we had like, the luxuries that other people had, but they were hard earned, like we were, we made our swimming pool.

We made our tennis court remember being out there, laying the tar down and doing all that stuff. We had this big huge acre that we would always get, you know, so we would kind of have our own food. So, we were kind of self-sufficient, to a certain extent grown up. And that was because I, you know, my father and my mother were entrepreneurs, so they were struggling and so this is how they were able to, you know, everybody pitched in everybody got it all together. So, we had all that nice stuff, but it wasn't maybe as nice as everyone else's, you know because we.

Shane Barker:  I love that. Like to me, it's like there's no better way to appreciate playing tennis than on a court that you like, help grind out and do like I mean to me.

Sandra Clayton: And it had all of these little creeks and I mean it wasn't perfect there were weeds and ground between it, but we were out there playing all the time.

Shane Barker:  Some character some to it, but I think you know that it's a missing thing. It's we fight with this with my son so going to college and he went to a private high school and you know, in the private high school all the kids literally all the kids over there 16 got, you know, the BMW or the Mercedes or whatever Lexus and then my son's like, hey, you're going to give us give me the Lexus and I'm like, “No, no.” You got to work for it, but like I you know, nobody gave me this car. And so, you know, it's like this. Now, I didn't tell my son to go make a car right now maybe that's a whole nother level to it. But I do like the idea of like, I mean, you have to work for it. Right? I mean, I was...

Sandra Clayton: You'll appreciate it, from a very young age you appreciate it. It really makes a difference; it really makes a difference. I think in your work ethic overall and in your appreciation for nice things and just right there right it's not.

Shane Barker:  Yeah because you know what it takes to build something like that like that's crazy, I think that's awesome we were I was joking around about this. So yesterday as I was telling you my son's going off to college for his third year junior year and we were talking about last night all my family over for everybody kind of like a no you know, hey, go to college a real fun sweet you know, some family members over and we were talking about a member I was digging ditches for a sprinkler system in the back of my house and it was hard paneling really, really thick. And I'm like blistered, I'm young, I'm burning, I'm on fire, I'm red once again like you know milky skin.

So, I'm out there doing this thing and I remember thinking we're at the end of this and it blisters and all the fun stuff. My dad's like, so do you want to go to college? And I was like, oh my god, like I can't wait to go to college. Like I'm like, tell me more about this college thing. Like Does it mean that we don't have to be outside, I don't have burn. You don't have blisters on your back from you know from your four hours of workout not blistering sun. So I think that's what catapulted me into college but you know, my son's doing some stuff now. He does a recycling work and long story short yesterday, he had a was a heat like I was it a heat deprivation but one of those you got dehydrated thrown up bad deal.

Yeah but I looked at it like everyone's going to hope he's fine now, but I looked at like that's kind of not good but it's like your grind, your hard working. You know you got to get out there and do that you have to really appreciate.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah.

Shane Barker:  What you have in life because he had a job working in restaurants, he's like, “oh this it's.” Then I'm like, I bet you appreciate that air conditioning. Now when you're inside right, you’re counting those tips and stuff.

Sandra Clayton: It gives you such a different perspective, right? I mean sure, reality check.

Shane Barker:  Yeah, I just I think we're missing a lot of that. I've already like I'm already whining on my podcasts like kids, they just don't get it. I don't know bikes are usually is not the way that it is. But this is the way I'm feeling right now. So, I guess this is where we're going. So, what tell us some interesting fact, I mean, you already did tell us an interesting fact about growing up. I mean, you built tennis courts and pools and all kind of stuff.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah it was crazy. It was crazy. We actually dug the hole pool, we had it, we had a ground floor and we dug it out and we like we a whole family was around stretching the liner. I mean, it was crazy. But then when we swim in the pool, we were like, this is such an awesome cool because we made it. Yours actually really good really good upbringing, the only thing that I could have done without were the hours and hours spent weeding the garden picking all the vegetables because you know, you can't let them sit.

So that was like, it was funny because I would want to play with my friends sometimes and they'd have to come over so we'd like, you know, we would do little skits out in the garden.

Shane Barker:  Yeah.

Sandra Clayton: Tossing tomatoes at each other and everything. But actually, like, you know, it turned into like a fun. It was fun and interactive, and everybody got involved. So, it was pretty good.

Shane Barker:  But I would think we're going to talk about your successes of the amazing things that you've done so far in your career. I would think a lot. Do you think a lot of that has to do with your upbringing of like, “Hey, you got to go get it done?” Like we're nobody else's, right? I mean, it's that's to me, I think not knowing you that well other than us chatting a little bit before the podcast, like that of like, “Hey, you got to go get it. Nobody else is going to handle this to you. Nobody's going to come.”

Sandra Clayton: Nobody's giving it to you. Nobody yeah, that is definitely yeah, definitely.

Shane Barker:  That's awesome.

Sandra Clayton: Nobody is giving you anything if you want it you got to get, you got to commit to it, and you got to do it. I even was I remember being on the swim team, I decided that we had a church right behind us. We had such a big yard in the back that the field then lead right into our church. So, I was always going to that church. I think my parents is a way to get me out of their air too. So all the kids went to youth group and all of you know, but I decided then I wanted to join the swim team and that was the way was a little bit further down and the church.

So I started doing it and like the first two days, I was like, man, I want to quit. I can't even it's so hard. We're doing 50 laps, I couldn't keep up and they just said no, you signed up. You can finish it and then decide that you're not doing it next year but this year, you know you commit to what you to what you start, and you find your happiness in it. And it you know, it was funny because four weeks into it, I was absolutely in love with it. It was like it wasn't hard anymore. I loved it. I stayed with it. But I think that that's, you know, too often we just kind of quit on things. And I think because they're uncomfortable because you know, it's hard at first.

Shane Barker:  New exchange.

Sandra Clayton: I really got that from a young age that it was like you're just not allowed to once you say yes to something you're not allowed to stop. And if you want something, you have to work for it, period.

Shane Barker:  God I feel like I need to interview your parents on this podcast. Like I seriously like I love that because we told our son the same thing is like, Hey, you signed up for it, you're going all the way through like I mean unless there's a crazy accident something happens but you got you know, like a right now but you committed to it and you committed to a team, right? And so, the thing is...

Sandra Clayton: I think with anything, you can find your happiness in it. Like you can decide, you can come at it from the mindset that you're just going to be all like irritated and kick and pebbles and just learn for me, or you can decide, hey, I'm going to find the beauty in this I'm going to find the happiness in it and you do it might not happen right away. But you do find it.

Shane Barker:  It's mindset. It's how you look at things, right? Because in the beginning, everybody knows, I mean, I hate anything that I'm doing in the beginning, like, you know. Because it's brand new, right? And you don't like change. You don't want to be the way that it was. It just won't be a house watching TV or whatever it is. Right. But it's like, then you get into it you’re like I got find some and there's some fun in this, right? Yeah, not a bad deal. So, where did you, did you go to college?

Sandra Clayton: I did. I went to Recker’s University

Shane Barker:  Recker’s look at that, yeah, so you were and then what did you study at Recker’s?

Sandra Clayton: I studied political science and journalism was my major. Which is why I like, I love blogging because it's, you know, I can write.

Shane Barker:  You're like, I've been trained to do this, this is what I do.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, yeah.

Shane Barker:  That's awesome. So, do you write all your own content for your blog?

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, I do. I had to get guest posts as well. I've taken a lot more contributions lately, but for the most part, it's my stuff yeah.

Shane Barker:  Yeah, I guess contributions. I'm a fan. I mean, you know, once again, if you think good writers, because then it's great. You know, it's good content to put out there as long as it's good content and I think...

Sandra Clayton: I got to weed them out.

Shane Barker:  You do it's always the, yeah, I mean, I, if I had $1 for every time somebody pitched me to write for my website, I, I would just retire at this point, I probably wouldn't have to do anything else but yeah, I'd be able to go off to my little private island and drink around.

Sandra Clayton: I just love the ones that are just like we want to submit a guest post for you and let us know if you're interested in will give you some topics and it's like trash.

Shane Barker:  Yes, it always.

Sandra Clayton: Send me some topics. Send me some writing samples and then I'll take a look.

Shane Barker:  Why did it go back and forth with 10 emails? And please don't send me something from a Gmail account, or even a Yahoo and AOL because I don't even know what's going on at that point. I've lost full interest.

Sandra Clayton: Just the other day, somebody, you know, was following up on one of their pitches and they said, I just want to see if you saw this email, and I scroll down and I saw that it was from a guy named Eddie. And then this new one was from Shana. And then I read their links that they had for the right examples. And it was from I don't know Katrine. And I'm like, what's your name? I'm like,

Shane Barker:  We're having an identity crisis here. We're trying to figure out like, Yeah, it is.

Sandra Clayton: Who is the real Eddie yeah.

Shane Barker:  Yeah and I always tell what I'll do is I'll say, hey, let's do a video call, because I know they won't do a video call because it's not john. Right? So, I'm like, oh can they're like, anyways, I like to have a little fun with them. I like to have fun with them and telemarketers, though they'll call up and I've had, I'll say, I'll tell you one story. So, this is funny. So, I am they call that it was a telemarketer saying, “Hey, this is you know, Wells Fargo” or something and saying, “Hey, we want to do this way” that I didn't have a Wells Fargo account. And I said, “Well, hey, this is no, how'd you get this phone number?” And she goes, “what do you mean?

How did that go? How'd you get this phone number?” Like I'm a federal agent like you're not, you can't I don't know how you guys got this number. I go but this is what you need to do is you can't hang up. Because what I mean I said do not hang up. I said “I'm going to have to send some agents over there. We're going to have to figure this out on how you got this number because I don't know.” “I'm just kidding I'm so sorry.” I was like, “Listen, I'm totally Sorry. I'm just mess. I'm just a smartalic” and she goes “that was not right.,” She starts laughing here we kind of had fun conversation after that, but it's not her fault, right? I mean, she's just doing her job.

But I figured let's have some fun with that. I, my name is Twan one time and I told them boyfriend used to beat me. I mean, I’ve had some good conversations with folks. And, you know, I mean, why if we can't have some fun to laugh at it, I mean why not, why not.

Sandra Clayton: Right, yeah, yeah.

Shane Barker:  So, tell us a little bit so you had to talk about your family, your parents being entrepreneurs? Tell us a little bit like I mean, obviously, we've talked about how that probably catapult you into the success of the idea of grinding it out and nobody's going to hand anything to you. But what did your parents do? Like what are they doing the entrepreneurial space?

Sandra Clayton: They right now they had a lot of pivots along the way. So that was one of the things I learned early on, they started out having an Airwick franchise, doing like the little stickers for the urinals and things like that. And then it morphed into like fishing boxes, and then we got into vacuums and now the latest one where they've settled on as they do standing equipment for airlines. And you know a lot of government contracts and they do a lot of work on Boeing and stuff like that. So, they're in the manufacturing space. And so, it's you know, it's one of those boring businesses but not so boring in your account.

Shane Barker:  Yeah, I was going to say I know that the only problem with Boeing and some of the bigger companies is you know, you don't get last get paid not last but you know, but once you get paid it's like, yeah, that's okay. We could wait a month or two I'm okay with that.

Sandra Clayton: We're good.

Shane Barker:  We're good. We're good again. What is it crazy the journey though I'm you're talking about literally from odor eaters for restrooms, to now working with Boeing?

Sandra Clayton: I think that's one of the biggest things you know, like, you know, when you talk about the journey of being successful, and hanging in there, right. You have to, you know, one of the things I talked to my father a lot about business and every time that I talked to him, he's always reinforcing that you got to have staying power. You have to find a way to be fluid to be flexible so that you can you know pivot to get to the it to find it and that's a big thing that I learned is that you know when all of these things that we perceive as failure are really just your journey telling you that you need to make a left turn here and not that you need to stop right so it's just reevaluate look at the situation where's the market and.

Shane Barker:  So this is so this I don't know if its jersey girls so I just talked to I did a podcast earlier she's a Jersey girl is where and we talked about failure and foundation and whether you're making a right or left like I like....

Sandra Clayton: Oh really?

Shane Barker:  Like crazy like to the point where I'm like, Okay, did I just wake up did already I feel like this is like a like Groundhog Day you know, like did we though we just talked about this. You look a little different but.

Sandra Clayton: Talked about this yeah.

Shane Barker:  But I love that.

Sandra Clayton:

I had a call with her before I got on.

Shane Barker:  Did you guys are on point because I'm like let's mess with Shane because I'm like, man, this is like the medication is really kicking in right now because I think we already had this conversation before but let's just roll with it. So, I do I love that of like the everything is happens for a reason right in because it is, I think everything is foundational. And it's all perspective on how you look at it, right? I mean, I have things that have happened in life and things you go.

Wow, that's crazy. Like, how did you make it to that I go, Well, I changed my perspective on the way there was I'm not saying it was easy. And I'm not saying that I changed it the next day, less than it wasn't pissed about things that have happened or how I was treated or something, you know, whatever that is.

Sandra Clayton: You going to go through that right, you're going to go through that.

Shane Barker:  You have to write you have to the way I look at the life, you have to get punched in the face, right? You have to have these things that happen in your life. Because it builds you into the machine that you are today. Right. And I think that's important for people and that's what I know, with my son as an example. You know, sometimes I feel like we're trying to stop the natural thing of life happening. Right? And I don't want to stop that. Like he has to feel some pressure from this and have some stressors and do this and do that. It's a different world for them.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, and I think the thing that is you know, sometimes you can google things and you watch the YouTube videos and you see people that seem to be just crushing it. And you don't get the whole long journey, you don't get the story of how they got there. And so, when you're not crushing it, and immediately, you feel like you should just, you know, close the door, shut everything down, you're not going to be successful. And I think that's a real missing gap today, having the attention span to be on your own journey to be focused head down, doing what you're doing, and not allow all those distractions that are here today you know.

Shane Barker:  And of course, this is a podcast so people aren't going to see me moving my hands but what I love remember seeing this there was just like a picture or whatever it was talking about the journey, like where you're at and where you're going to be an entrepreneur and it's not a direct line. It just isn't like…

Sandra Clayton: Yeah right.

Shane Barker:  Hockey stick. It's this weird up and down up to the plateaus.

Sandra Clayton: You got to ride that roller coaster, yeah.

Shane Barker:  You do, and you have to, and there's a certain point where if you're not riding that roller coaster, I'd be cautious because it's coming Right, you have to be ready for that kind of stuff. So, she's been raised with entrepreneurs, you guys understand things were great at sometimes like, hey, maybe we can have somebody to our pool. There are other times, like, guess what, we're going to have to figure out what next week, right? It's those ups and downs of that. I mean, I have, because I'm an entrepreneur, my wife is a nurse.

So just recently a nurse, but now we have that stability in the sense that I can have, I mean, I've years that are phenomenal that I'm like, I'm going to retire them every year that I'm like, man, I, you know, like, can I borrow money for tacos this week? You know, not really, but you know, when it gets Yeah, the ups and downs.

Sandra Clayton: It's not as stable as somebody who's doing the 9 to 5, it just isn't.

Shane Barker:  And I think that's important for people to see that the reason why I think a lot of courses potentially can do well is because people sell the dream. And people want to, you know, they, you know, why do the second seven second app or seven second app if I can try to find the three second app and I think people are always, not always but trying to find shortcuts and like, hey, at the end of the day to build that tennis court, you need to there's not a lot of shortcuts, right?

I mean, there's little things but the end of the day you have to put in the work. And I think that's what's important. And it I think, I want to kind of talk about actually, if we talk about this is because I think the companies have is conversion minded, right?

Sandra Clayton: Yes.

Shane Barker:  And so you're talking about like, and I'm sure that talks about foundation and how you do things and like how we talk about getting your mind ready for conversions or getting things in a position to be able to convert, you know, whether that be a pivot, whether that be keep going, whether that whatever that is, like, tell us a little bit about how you started conversion minded and like how it all came about?

Sandra Clayton: Conversion minded. I started only maybe three years ago, and that came about because I was at this kind of crossroads, I knew that I had a design company, and I wasn't really thrilled with doing that. I was really, in terms of you know, my past businesses that I had, I really wanted a product-based business. I didn't want a service-based business. So, I was at a point where I just was like, what's my next thing you know, sometimes you're there. So, I actually, I'm a fashion designer, I'm a songwriter, I've had music production studios, I've taught voice lessons and things like that.

So, I was at this point where I'm like, I know that I want to start a blog, but I don't know what I want to blog about. And I really actually at that point, for some, for whatever reason, I wanted to just sit back and stop and just detach from, you know, sometimes you have thoughts about yourself or ideas about yourself or who you're supposed to be in the world. And I felt like there was just a disconnect for me, because in my family, I was always kind of the creative one. And so, there's a lot of pressure on me to be creative, wanting to do things, but not necessarily look at the finances behind it, right.

So, I kind of felt like I wanted to step back and I didn't want to be that. I didn't want to have to be that person anymore. So just wanted to give myself the freedom to be like, who are you now, you know, so when I really thought about it, I was like, you know what, I really love everything that there is about business. That's the common thread for me and everything that I've done. The you know, launching it, putting it out there that the idea of creating something new and seeing it take its own shape and it's just so I feel like it's kind of the fabric of our humanity is the cornerstone of creativity. So, I just decided that that's what I wanted to do. And that is like the next day, I started conversion. Mind if I had so much clarity then that this was my mission.

And that's what you know, that's what I love to do is just help people start their own businesses experience with that is get out there, build it, make it successful. And so that's what I try to share over on my blog.

Shane Barker:  Awesome. So that was an aha moment for you. He said, wait a second. I've got it.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah.

Shane Barker:  The common thread and so you're really your services are, you know, helping people? Is it somebody that just has an idea and a logo or is it somebody that's already had been? At what stage Do you look to work with somebody?

Sandra Clayton: I really like to, I like to work with people when they're starting up, but actually most of my clients are people who are already in business and who are Have need to hit a certain, you know, they're ready to scale or they're hitting walls, their marketing isn't working. So it's kind of both but I feel like if it's just if somebody starting out, I'm able to really help them if they have a clear vision I don't really get involved with trying to figure out what you're doing so much you know, I feel like it's I've worked better with clients who kind of know where they want to go and they want to know the fastest way to get there and that's where.

Shane Barker:  And so, conversion minded is more is that kind of like consulting?

Sandra Clayton: I do coaching and I also have products and courses that I sell. So, I see myself as an educator.

Shane Barker:  Yeah.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah. yeah, I sell them in both ways.

Shane Barker:  That makes sense. Is that like the, you have the build my brand toolkit is that kind of that funds and runs into the umbrella is that of that?

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, yeah, I created that because you know, I feel like we are brands and we're publishing all the time. We're you know content marketing to put yourself out there and market today you really do have to have a solid brand and I think sometimes people don't know everything that's involved in branding and they think it's just your logo. So, you know, I kind of put that together as your branding system.

So that would be not only your logo and your colors in your visual presence, but you know, how what's the application of your logo, all these places that it needs to show up and then what's your message and your bio and so really putting it together in terms of how are you positioning yourself on you know, online or with everything everywhere you show up?

Shane Barker:  Well, that's interesting. So I touched on a little earlier so I'm working on a course it's actually how to be an influencer com is the course and it's still people being influencers but where we're starting with the course is not like hey, you can you know, have a pink pool and eat caviar on a jet right? That's your goal, then okay, that's awesome. But really, it's the personal branding, like just the basic stuff of like putting a website up and having you know, quit pitching Nike, cute girl 29, you know, at Gmail, right?

Like, just basic stuff that, you know, for us as marketers, you know, we think, “Hey, start a foundation, right?” Start something strong, and then you can start building from there. And so that's literally what the course is going to be about. I don't touch on branding as much as I probably should. But maybe that's why I'll send them over to you for the branding side of things but mine is like, Hey, get some stuff going. And, but make sure you're doing it the right way so you have a good foundation, and then you can grow the business from there. So...

Sandra Clayton: I think that's very, it's really crucial and I think that you know, some people think that they can bypass the website and whenever I have a client that that's the way that they feel. I'm kind of like, let's work out the website. Not even that you have to create this full-blown website, but you start talking about it with more clarity, you know what you're doing.

I mean, it's almost like you're putting a business model together when you're creating your website because you're forced to say, okay, who am I? What am I doing? What's my you know, what are the services are products that have you know. And it's like, you know, otherwise you can't have that conversation with people. So, you're really creating the messaging that you're this framing your whole brand, you know.

Shane Barker:  Yeah. Which it's almost like a business plan kind of remain because you're having to talk about certain things that maybe you didn't think about. Right so. That's awesome. So when it comes to like, implementing, like a successful business marketing strategy, like, is there I mean, is there like some framework that you work off of, or, like, when you're coming up when somebody comes, you just have one, like, I have an idea, I've got a vision, I've got all this stuff in place.

Now, I'm just trying to figure out like, how I launched like, what is there like a framework that you put together? Or what do you how do you how would somebody that, you know, or obviously, they could reach out to you, I'm sure the website and stuff, but what is it that you have in place?

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, the framework is basically to do just that to build your foundation. If you have that already, then you can move on. And then it becomes a content foundation. What's your content? What are you putting out there, you know, and then so during the brand foundation, that's where you really dig into What it is that you're doing right? So, if you're all good on that, then we move right into the content strategy. How are you going to get visible? What are you publishing? Where are you're going to hang your hat, and the types of content that you're going to be creating to attract customers, right?

Because that's it all starts with that. And then finally, the sales. So, we kind of move into we'll move from brand to content to the sales strategy, webinars, you know, direct outreach, where are you going to focus for getting new leads? How are you going to do it? You know, getting more comfortable selling, even when you show up on social media? I think a lot of people are still afraid to actually know what do I post I no idea what to post. So, you know, just kind of just get that all together. So it really depends on where you're at. And then of course, it depends on the business that you have. I have both people who are consultants, I also have people with products.

So, I mean, where are you going to market and your marketing, you know, strategy can look totally different. But the core steps, you know, are there, right? You have to have all of these three in place.

Shane Barker:  And obviously, you're good at building these putting these frameworks in place and helping people because you built your business went to 6 million in two years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you go sister guy you got you should smile about that one. That's a healthy little number right there. So how did you I mean, how did you put something together like that? I mean, in two years, first of all, like, how do you have a team? How big is your team?

And then what did you do to be able to produce $6 million in revenue? I'm assuming you have different revenue streams, right? It's probably not just one revenue streams, you have probably courses and consulting and stuff, kind of break that down a little bit on how big your team is and how what your revenue streams are?

Sandra Clayton: Well, that the $6 million business that I built is not the current one. So that is one that I sold. So that is, that was a temporary tattoo business.

Shane Barker:  Temporary sounds pretty permanent to me, man. dollars. That's good. That's awesome.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, so with that, that was, it was really just me and my partner and we just came up with the idea to do it. And we figured out how to actually make them and then we found distributors for them. And we just kind of kept going from there. So that was a wholesale, you know, product that we put out there. And so, we, you know, we would contact big chains and get them into big chains and things like that so.

Shane Barker:  So, you guys are like the gateway to real tattoos. You guys are like the guys are like marijuana.

Sandra Clayton: I'm not like a permanent kind of girl. So, for me.

Shane Barker:  Gotcha.

Sandra Clayton: Great tattoos. And I think the big thing with that business was that I think with every business, you really have to have product market fit. And I think a lot of people don't realize that when you go out, but I think that that was just a perfect impulse item. That's you know, that's a big reason that work is wasn't expensive and even You know, I think even when creating digital products and courses like don't forget about I think we call them all trip wires, right?

But that's really an inbuilt product and it's so easy for people to buy those right. So that was kind of the strategy here, make it really affordable, make it something that would be on the shelf in stores and at the counter and very visible and so.

Shane Barker:  Good profit margins, right. That's obviously.

Sandra Clayton: Good profit margins yeah.

Shane Barker:  Right.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Barker:  Yeah for sure. I can imagine it doesn't cost too much to produce those. We're putting that all together and going out to you know, probably the sponsors of the world and these different you know, targets or whatever it is. That's actually interesting. That's awesome. Congratulations on that.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah. Thank you.

Shane Barker:  So, what like in regard to not only the $6 million business that you built in two years, but also the current business you have? Like, what are some of the biggest challenges that like maybe your clients, or you have faced? Like, what are some of the things that you've seen either yourself personally, your clients you're like, these are usually the points where people quit or this is, you know, this is when it starts to get them because obviously what starts get hard because it's always going to get hard. There's always a plan in the relationship or in the business where again, there's going to be challenges. But is there any certain area that you see, this is where I see most people quit? Or tell us about your personal challenges in your business?

Sandra Clayton: Oh, yeah, sure. I think that the biggest challenge, I think with business is knowing. First of all, you have to set the right goals, right? I think so many times we have these big, big, huge goals and we don't break them down. You don't have like clear objectives. And I think that the other thing is that you know, what, you have to have the right resources for your business like so if you know, don't I always say, don't start a business unless you until you analyze it until you do that business plan.

Because if you don't have the right resources, and given monetarily, or if you're, you know, you're constantly selling yourself, you know, it's going to be very hard to scale. So, I think that those are the places that I see people that I've experienced it where you're stuck at a point where you can't get beyond because you're not streamlining what you're doing. You're not finding ways to have other people do it for you, you're not building out that team. So I think it's just you have to be realistic about your resources for your business, if you don't have what you're going to need, either that's not the business for you to store or you got to find the resources, right.

So just being very pragmatic about that. And then I think also the, you know, the product market fit is a huge thing. And it's such a, it can be so challenging. And I'll give you an example of that. I'm working right now on another business with my brother. And we have been, it's a nutrition product. And we started it to help people lower their blood pressure and lower blood sugar and cholesterol, you know, on their own without having to take pills and medication. And we have been going we have been on that roller coaster of who is the audience for this. Who are we marketing it to?

And we just it's it seems so many different transformations, until finally we landed on it. So finally, we realized through just kind of persevering and hanging there with it that this is a patient education thing for doctors. It's an interactive patient education tool. And all this time we had the same product. But we weren't really marketing it the right way to the right people. We were trying to market it as a consumer, we knew we didn't want to be in the nutrition space and just get lost in the shuffle. We wanted to really have some differentiation. And so, it's been a real challenge, because we always had this mismatch either in the messaging or, you know, we weren't targeting the right people. We were targeting people who we thought were older, turns out it's the younger audience. Turns out doctors are the ones who really want this thing.

So, we always had a lot of faith in the product just because it's kind of a mission of ours to have people be healthy.

Shane Barker:  Yeah.

Sandra Clayton: But there's so many points along there where you can quit because it's taken us now three years on that one to even figure out what it is. But you know, when you know what it is, once you hit that sweet spot, it's like a hockey stick and like, all of a sudden, you're marketing is so easy. You're you know, if you don't have all of these struggles, because you've already laid the groundwork and you have something that people want, you have something you've identified the market, you have something people want. So, I think that's the biggest challenge.

When people come to me and they have, you know, I see their websites and they just kind of look like these car sales people and they're just kind of like crazy with what, oh, I came up with this because I came up with another, you know, pad or whatever it is, because somebody said, that would be a good idea. And I came up with this too, because, you know, it's like, there's no, there has to be an under arch in mission and strategy behind what you're doing, because that's what's going to guide you through all of these little, you know, peaks and valleys that you're going to hit.

Shane Barker:  And it comes down to your intension is goals, right? It's like figure out really what you want to do, what your mission is, and then really sticking to that and it's.

Sandra Clayton: And if you don't have that, if you're not solid with that, then you're going to get blown by the waters, right? You're going to get you…

Shane Barker:  Yeah, because you don't even know what you want. I mean, it's no different than I mean, it's no different like that. dating, like if you just got to, you know, 10 year relationship a week ago, probably not a great time today, but you still got to figure out yourself and what you're at what's going on, you just have to, there's some soul searching some stuff that needs to happen there. Right? You can't, it's hard. And I get that a lot where people want to pitch me on products or ideas or something. And it's like, Man, you're still all over the place, right?

Sandra Clayton: You have to level out.

Shane Barker:  Like you got to hone it down.

Sandra Clayton: And we really did you do have to that whole thing where you can't be everything to every person, right? I mean, we all want, we are so afraid that we're going to miss a sale, we're going to miss somebody, we're going to turn somebody off. We want to get those clients and customers. But I think that you know, and what we did in this case is we just locked on to this is our mission, we know that it's a huge market way to analyze the market.

So when you have your numbers and you have your data and you just you know, you really believe in what you're doing, that's going to ground you and it's going to keep you through those you know those late nights where it's not easy to work on what you're doing when you got to change it again, because you're still be you're pivoting to get that product market fit. So, I think that's it.

Shane Barker:  You know, what I remind people too, is that you know, what if it was easy, everyone would do it.

Sandra Clayton: If it was easy, everybody would do it right yeah.

Shane Barker:  Right? I mean, it really is what it comes down to because it's like, the only thing I can promise you is that there's going to be points where you're like, what the hell am I doing? Why am I doing this? I'm confused again. But if you can go back to your values, you can go back to your vision, you can go back to this kind of stuff and say, Okay, I'm doing this maybe not necessarily for me, but I want to lower people's cholesterol or I wanted, there's a bigger thing here that I think there could make a bigger impact money being one of those potentially, but maybe it's also that the mission of giving back or whatever that is, I think that's important to really understand what that is so that you can you know, tap back into that, okay, okay, read my vision again, okay.

That's why because it's not about me, you know, it's about there's going to be a bigger, I guess, a bigger goal in mind or a bigger, you know, x, you know, things you need to put in place for things to be successful and know that it's not just all about you,.

Sandra Clayton: Right. Yeah, yeah absolutely.

Shane Barker:  That's awesome. So how many going to think you have a sickness like I do, and I'm saying this in the most recent way possible. How many businesses are you running right now?

Sandra Clayton: Three.

Shane Barker:  I think you're lying. I think you have four or five. I think you're just holding back for the podcast because you didn't want to make it seem like you have five businesses right now. Just be honest, I look it up. I will call you out later.

Sandra Clayton: Right, we'll talk later. We'll talk later.

Shane Barker:  Okay, now we're being honest that's it. I just I knew I just ask the question.

Sandra Clayton: I don't I multitask,

Shane Barker:  I know. I know with you. I'm with you. You and I are going to just talk back and forth.

Sandra Clayton: I couldn't tell you, yeah.

Shane Barker:  I've got like a wholesale real estate company here in Sacramento. I mean, I've got so many things. I forget and this is how this is the sickness that I have. But I do have a big team. I'm a 35-person team, so we can kind of move and get some stuff done. But my sickness is like, people say what do you do? And I'm like, that's a great question. Like, you don't know what you're doing. I'm like.

Sandra Clayton: Who am I talking to?

Shane Barker:  Here's the deal. Yeah, like, are we talking to Shane? This guy Shane or the real estate Shane? Or we talking to entrepreneurship Shane, speaker Shane, are we talking about the instructor at UCLA Shane, and I'm like, I literally told you all that tried to do that, too. And I'm like, how did you not remember that you're an instructor at UCLA? And I'm like, Why? Because I do some other stuff, too. They're like, are you on medicine? I'm like, I probably should be. I mean, probably heavy doses of it, but I just haven't found the right mix yet. But that's nothing we need to talk about today but...

Sandra Clayton: A type personality, right?

Shane Barker:  It is, it is. I mean, I have to and my thing is, as you said, I used to have a terrible work life balance, I used to work 18 hours a day, it was just, I was 30 pounds heavier, not in a good space. I was, you know, doing all kinds of bad stuff of energy drinks and all that. Now I work out and you know, I got a way better system in place. But you know, it takes sometimes you got to you know, once again, those in delegation and all this stuff that you know, that you learn. I mean, if I didn't go through that.

Sandra Clayton: You'll have to know what to delegate, right.

Shane Barker:  Yeah, well, the only guarantee would be a delegation most of the time is that they're not going to do exactly the way that you want and that's okay. But that's the problem is that people go up I delegate to this person, but, but then I'm just going to have to maybe reduce some of it. Yeah. But if they do 80% of a correct or if you train them or you have a better process of training them, so they know exactly how you like things done. These days, it's easy like with video and they're just I mean, I can go and tell somebody from my team, “Hey guys on this I really like this changes, do this, do that, do that.”

And I can send them a two minute video and it'll take me two minutes to create it and I'm done.

Sandra Clayton: Very helpful. Yeah that the way to do it. I had video trainings for everything already all lined up yep.

Shane Barker:  Beautiful because then you can plug it into anybody. Yeah, it's it for me back in the day. It was like I'm writing an email and I'm pointing arrows and doing this and doing that and then I'd read that, I'd read it in the morning and I'm like, I don't even know what I wrote How would I expect anybody else to understand that like it's like hieroglyphics and I'm like, were you drunk? Or like my you know, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't like you know, most of the time. But you know, it's like this weird deal but video is like yeah, I use...

Sandra Clayton: So easy now, it's so easy.

Shane Barker:  So, what I'm going to ask you this, so are there other like three softwares or tools that you use? Or we're going to say video is there any specific video software Do you use?

Sandra Clayton: I use Screen Flow to record those types of quick tutorials? I use that all the time. I also use loom to do some quick recordings. Yeah. Yeah, it depends on you know how I really love Screen Flow because I use it for my courses and everything. So that's great for me now. So, I just pop it open and use the app that's great to record all of it.

Shane Barker:  I've used Screen Flow on occasion but loom for me because it's letting up for my course, I'm doing something different, but loom is like so easy. And I probably have 900 little videos like I'm not kidding you. Like I was one of the early people that started using it and I've kind of evolved with it. And it's just so easy like I'm probably an abuser, like I'm probably the reason they're going to go out of business.

Like their server space is going to be too much because they're like somebody producing way too many videos for the $60 a month they charge me or whatever the number is, but I do love it like you know, just anyways, I just I'm a huge fan of it just with anything and everything. It just makes things so much easier because I'm, you know with writing emails, it takes me an hour half an hour and I got ADHD and I'm like, you know, this is so much easier just to talk God knows I can talk and just won't ever stop but. So okay, you got videos you got Screen Flow and then we have loom what are some other software's any other software's like you can't live without?

Sandra Clayton: Oh, definitely Easy Webinar for webinars. I totally, I love them. They're great. Their customer service is amazing. So anytime, you know, you have an issue. They're right there with you. They'll get on a text chat with you and help you solve it. So those guys are great. And the other thing believes it or not, is Google Docs. I mean, I use that on everything. I just found the I just heard about anyway the that you have the ability to take forms, translate them or convert them directly into slides. So, I mean, it just automation there is like crazy. Crazy, crazy.

Shane Barker:  Yeah. Google's got a few people do engineers and stuff that put some stuff together. They're not too bad. Last time I checked. Yeah, we use I mean, I'm definitely a Google Doc abuser. Like I, I feel also with I think they're probably servers are going to be okay with what we're doing. But it is we, you know, we're so tied into that whole thing of, you know, I mean, I have, I'm 500's of google docs, like, I can't even find them half the time I got to label these a little better, right?

Sandra Clayton: You have to start really labeling them yeah, right.

Shane Barker:  Yeah you do. You'd like you can't just put chains Doc, you know, Shane's Google Doc, like, No, that doesn't work anywhere. We got to be little more specific.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah.

Shane Barker:  That's funny. So what about so if we had a chance to like, if there was like, when you talked about aspiring entrepreneurs, like if there was like one piece of advice, and then we've kind of talked about, like, hey, it's going to be a hard journey, you're going to get punched in the face a few times. Don't expect you're going to have to probably pivot. Like, yeah, let's go right. But is there any other piece of advice that you can think about that you would think God I think every entrepreneur needs to realize is ... blank?

Sandra Clayton: I think the thing that every entrepreneur needs to realize is first of all, you can do it, you can definitely do it. Okay. So like that's the first thing I think sometimes we don't have the confidence that we can do it, you can do it to be very, very, I think the biggest thing with entrepreneurship is that you do have to have that staying power, you do have to, you know, you want to make sure that you have certain amount of money.

So, does that mean you have to be able to live right? So you need to find that point where you jump from your 9-5 to your, you know, real business, right, that point has got to be some, at some point where you feel like you're getting traction, you're starting to see that this could be something that's, you know, that's the point where you kind of make that leap so that you're not just out there in, you know, in the ocean kind of falling by the wayside. But I do think that, you know, I think the big thing with entrepreneurship is that especially when you compare it to leave in like 9-5, where everything is restructured and everything, you know, you have the status meetings, and everybody's kind of you know, you have accountability is that somehow you have to recreate that accountability.

You can't go every day and be like well, you know, I can just watch TV all day because I don't...

Shane Barker:  Yeah, you got to kick your own ass, right?

Sandra Clayton: You have to be that, you know you have status meeting you have to be the team you know so you have to kind of really get some structure to your day where you're doing the same thing every day you're getting you know you have a routine because that's what you know you're losing out when you leave the office, right and you go in and you get your coffee, sit down at your desk and you open your email right so like what is that new routine for you and stick with it and create that routine I think that's going to help you lock on to it more than anything else.

Shane Barker:  Agreed. I think routine is So have you ever read what is it the my god the morning, something about morning routines or something that had the book somewhere anyways, it what it talks about is a routine that you do in the morning when you're getting ready for your day. So, my routine, I used to be once in up late all night and up somewhat early in the morning. I mean early like you know, six o'clock.

I actually get up at around five 530 now and I walk. People probably think I'm a mama Matheran some kind of drug or something, but I just walk frivolously like just the neighborhoods and go downtown Sacramento go all over. And I do it for about 12 miles a day.

Sandra Clayton: That’s' great.

Shane Barker:  But it's just early, but it's also you know, it's also me with my team on slack and doing this and doing that. So, I'm getting stuff done. I'm meetings while I'm, yeah, well, I'm on there while I'm walking. You know, of course, I'm reading a little heavy and first one is probably super awkward for everybody on the call. They're like, why are you breathing so heavy on a Friday morning? I'm like, that's just what I do. I get super passionate. I'm like, “No, I'm walking,” you know, like who she is no, but I do think that that routine of like, you know, because then you get in that regimen of like, this is this is how I start my day. This is...

Sandra Clayton: This is what your day is like...

Shane Barker:  Yeah.

Sandra Clayton: It's a process.

Shane Barker:  And it's important because if you don't, it's very easy to get off target instantly. Jump on Facebook, jump on this, do this, do that and not really be in that mindset.

Sandra Clayton: Even little manage the times that you're on social media that,

Shane Barker:  Yeah.

Sandra Clayton: Your least corrupted time. Even though you might feel like oh, you know, you know how it is when you're kind of diving into liking something new. That's when you want to be most distracted because you don't want to learn this new thing or you don't want to like, you know, it's like oh, I got to think about another thing let me just go login Facebook real quick.

I think either way really, really just there are specific times that you're that you're you know online and then you shut it down and you get your work done I do that two in the morning I get I take a half an hour and I get my little menial tasks out of the way if I have to check in with my team or I have to email someone back I'll take care of that. But then that's it and then I block out I seriously block out; you know the bulk of my day for any deep work that I need to do. And then I'm a workout at night person. So, then I go, and I'll have a workout at night, but you know, the more whatever it is that works for you it is irrelevant.

Shane Barker:  Yeah.

Sandra Clayton: Developing that pattern and that habit and not letting things interfere with it. When you block out that time that you're working on something lock it down.

Shane Barker:  That's the key. The key is blocking out time because once again, you get sidetracked by everything in anything right and even blocking it out isn't going to be perfect. But then you know, this is the Usually when you tell your deep think you're deep, you know, the deep process work, whatever you got going on there, you have to focus and not have kids around or anything like that.

But I think just structuring that and then that gives you a better idea of what's going to your day structure, right. So you have some structure to it, it's not going to it's going to deviate, but it's still at least you know, this is 80% of 90% of my day is going to be this and I feel productive by the end of the day if I get that done.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, yeah absolutely.

Shane Barker:  So, are there are there any marketers or any like entrepreneurs or anybody that you're inspired by that like you follow on social media or you engage with or anything?

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, I think you know, in terms of following people I do that a little bit less these days just because you know, kind of needy than what I'm doing but I definitely there I mean, I love cats element or written marketing solved. I love Amy Porterfield. I'm really big fan of Brian Dean. I think he's all of his SEO tips are just amazing.

Shane Barker:  Yeah. BacklinkO,

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, yeah and also Rebecca Radice, you know, social media people yeah.

Right yes, I just counted them.

Shane Barker:  Awesome, awesome, awesome. So, what would I mean Are there any cool projects you're working on? I mean other than your 19 businesses that you have that I think once the MVP kind of kind of held back on me a little bit which is okay, yeah, I could tell we're going to probably text each other all night and like I can imagine this way like I've 19 businesses you were right Shane.

Sandra Clayton: I just counted them.

Shane Barker:  Yes, exactly and I had to use my toes. So, you do the math on that. Yeah, exactly. I can't count that high. So, I had to hire somebody else bring their fingers over. I get it. I've been there I'm there right now. Any other cool projects you got to meet other that are business or personal any other fun stuff that are you just need even your current projects?

Sandra Clayton: I'm knee deep in this and my big thing right now is definitely the coaching, the one-on-one coaching. I'm super excited about I'm loving it. I have three months and six months packages. And I'm just really, really embracing that right now. I held off on doing one on one coaching for a while. And I'm really super excited about it. I just I love the impact and I love you know, seeing people working with them one on one to get those results is just super inspiring. So that's my that's my big pet project right now.

Shane Barker:  One it's kind of nice because then you can see like, when you're talking one on one, you can be very specific to their needs when you do a course, which is not bad. It's very general. Yeah right you don't.

Sandra Clayton: You know a lot of times people need that, you know, you just need a little bit of guidance and this one direction everything isn't a one size fits all. So, I'm really loving and also you just do the results are so much quicker, right? Let me see it. Let's just get in there. Let's figure it out. Move on, you know, yeah.

Shane Barker:  Do you have for your courses or any certain platform to yours, like Kajabi, or?

Sandra Clayton: I us teachable.

Shane Barker:  Teachable? Awesome, awesome.

Sandra Clayton: Yeah, I love teachable yep.

Shane Barker:  Cool. And then what about so let's if you. What are your favorite things to do when you're not working? Some as you're probably defined you what not working is that would be a time when you're not working? Yeah, yeah. 16 minutes before you go to sleep in the half an hour when you're drinking your coffee. So those 14 seconds.

Sandra Clayton: I am a street runner. Big runners signed up for my first half marathon. I'm not ready for a full marathon. I did also I did the Spartan Race, the Spartan beast.

Shane Barker:  Nice you

Sandra Clayton: I'm super thrilled. So, my big thing right now is working out and running. To feel my body, I love to feel that I'm not just sitting in a chair for hours and hours and hours like.

Shane Barker:  Yes, stagnant life. I used to work for Spartan so I've been to quite we went to the one in Tahoe Yeah, for the Spartan the big one they had in Tahoe and I had a buddy of mine that was like, Oh, I got this barely trained was a smoke. I didn't know he's a smoker, but we were working together. He almost died. I mean that like literally almost died. I mean, it's like, you're going up the side of a damn mountain. Like there's not even an elevator like it's literally straight up this thing.

Sandra Clayton: You know, halfway through it. I was just thinking, what are we all doing? And I mean, everybody was thinking the same thing. You could tell.

Shane Barker:  Oh, yeah.

Sandra Clayton: On the mountain. I'm like, why are we doing this? But you know what?

Shane Barker:  Took him seven and a half hours. I thought he was dead. Like I was like, can I file a missing person report? Like, no, we got to wait at least 24 hours. I'm like, No, I don't think he's going to make and they're like, we get this a lot. And he wasn't that good of a friend. I wasn't that worried. I mean, he wasn't like my mom or something. But it's like, it's a crazy deal. And like, so he came down, I was like, what is going to go? Do you and then he'd like smokers.

Sandra Clayton: I thought I had trained for it and I'm like, no, you can just triple the training that you're doing for the next one because that's like.

Shane Barker:  Well, and Tao was another variable, like you're going straight. It's like the elevation of it is like you're not even ready for like, I had a hard time breathing when I was thinking.

Sandra Clayton: Oh, yeah, forget about the altitude sickness, right, let that you know, think about that factor again. I actually, I was like, I'm going to throw up I feel dizzy.

Shane Barker:  I wish I had a picture this he said he cramped up and fell down like me, like went down. And then one of our friends, Dennis was it was like, bud, okay. And he's like, couldn't they could barely talk. He was all cramped up like a dinosaur before it died, I mean just, and I wish I had pictures of all this because he would buy back from me and I could make tons of money from that. But he survived, he survived.

So, shout out to the guys over there. I mean, I'm glad they survived just barely. So, tell us, I'm trying to think of I want there's probably another question I would ask you but tell us one random fact that people don't know about you. So, you're a runner? Is there anything that people would go away? Sandra, we had no idea like, you know, you secretly fence for the Olympic team or something? I mean, is there anything like are you all pretty open and out there?

Sandra Clayton: Well, you what people probably don't know is that I was the first Pro Tools HD user when that came out. I'm like, I had a big music recording studio in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. I had all these Neve consoles, I had drums and I had I mean, I remember walking into Sam ash and walking out literally $20,000 with the gear poking out of my car, like all these keyboards, like...

Shane Barker:  You're like living a life.

Sandra Clayton: And then I was like what do I do with all this? And that's pretty much the way I jumped into things. So, you know that took up a huge part of my fun time so.

Shane Barker:  So, what was your genre? Like what kind of music did you do?

Sandra Clayton: R&B man.

Shane Barker:  R&B that was it.

Sandra Clayton: Groovy, I like the beats a little bit of funk in there, you know, but that's my thing.

Shane Barker:  Do you still do a little music or what?

Sandra Clayton: I do music I have my songs. You know, I just try and figure out where to get him, but you know, I keep listening to him. Like let's go. Let's get it out there.

Shane Barker:  I could tell maybe there's a podcast and we can see you kind of get down, but I saw you start talking about R&B in your head start bobbing and I was like oh, somebody is ready. I know somebody listens to keys runs. I do dress me. I hear that. The AOA kicking right now I got to go.

Sandra Clayton: There you go yeah.

Shane Barker:  I used to have a record label. Not anything special by any means so I’m.

Sandra Clayton: Oh, wow that's why we get along so well.

Shane Barker:  Somewhat familiar with the music industry but I appreciate people that are on the creative side of things and that create music because I think that's awesome, I never really had an ear for it. I'm in an era I thought was good music, but I never jumped in I really wish I would have done some kind of producer and engineer something on the back end I do really enjoy music I'm a huge fan so. Well cool so let's this has been an awesome interview once again you're an absolute die once again I know that I think we could probably talk for like two days more yeah, we're probably going to be BFFsor something maybe even friends on Facebook. I mean that close.

Sandra Clayton: That would be good.

Shane Barker:  I know yeah. No, it's a commitment I didn't want it I wanted to tell you at the end of the podcast because the beginning needs to be like “this guy's a stalker.” Yeah, but now that we're like super comfortable. If people need to get in contact with you, they want to find out more about your courses and you’re the personal the coach and you've got going on where can they find out everything about you?

Sandra Clayton: They can email me at Sandra at conversionminded.com they can also hit me up on Instagram @SandraJakeLayton. Those are probably the best places.

Shane Barker:  Awesome. Awesome. Sandra, this was an awesome interview. You got a great, great energy about you. This has been fun, for sure.

Sandra Clayton: I had a lot of fun. I had a ton of fun and I am going to add you online.

Shane Barker:  I can't wait. We'll see if I'm a success story from the guy that like, Hey, don't do what Shane did he did these 47 things wrong. Don't do that.

Sandra Clayton: Okay you have to send me those car shots.

Shane Barker:  Alright you know, you know, and I'll be in the car. I was in your picture. We're like, hey, look, I need to borrow some money. Like, hey, send me some money. So well, awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Sandra Clayton: Oh, yeah. Thank you so much too. I had tons of fun.

Shane Barker:  All right. Bye-bye.

Sandra Clayton: Bye.